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Your World Today

Terror in Jordan; The Threat of al Zarqawi

Aired November 10, 2005 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN Center, this is YOUR WORLD TODAY.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUEEN RANIA, JORDAN: Like all Jordanians, I think we are really sort of shocked by what happened.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAIN VERJEE, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Extending a hand of compassion, Jordan's Queen Rania mourns with the country after terrorists strike without warning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were on the way to enter the hall where the ceremony was going to happen. And we -- there was a blast inside the hall.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: A groom tells how a time of joyous celebration turned tragic in seconds as a suicide bomber blows himself up at a wedding.

VERJEE: Terrorist Abu Musab al Zarqawi's group claiming responsibility for the gruesome attacks. This time hitting his home country.

HOLMES: It's 7:00 p.m. right now in Amman, Jordan. Hello, everyone. I'm Michael Holmes.

VERJEE: And I'm Zain Verjee.

Welcome to our viewers around the world and in the United States. This is CNN International.

HOLMES: And this is a special edition of YOUR WORLD TODAY, "Terror in Jordan."

VERJEE: The terrorists targeted three luxury hotels in Amman, Jordan. In their words, a back yard for the enemies of faith.

HOLMES: Fifty-six people killed in these suicide blasts. More than 100 people wounded. A claim of responsibility, too, from al Qaeda in Iraq. It appeared on an Internet Web site. VERJEE: This hour we'll bring you a special edition of YOUR WORLD TODAY. We're going to focus on the attacks which one Jordanian writer likens to an eruption of a terrorist volcano.

Thursday's been a day of mourning, but also a day of defiance in Jordan.

HOLMES: Thousands marching in solidarity in the streets of the capital. Many people carrying flags and signs condemning the attacks.

VERJEE: As the hotels clean up the debris, police continue a broad security lockdown. And more details coming to light. A source close to the investigation tells CNN two of the bombers were Iraqis.

HOLMES: The first and deadliest blast went off at the Radisson hotel. About 300 people there celebrating this wedding when a bomber walked in wearing a belt packed with explosives.

The modus operandi was similar in the attacks at the nearby Grand Hyatt and at the Days Inn, not far away. All three U.S. hotels are within yards of each other and have long been on al Qaeda's hit list.

VERJEE: CNN's Hala Gorani is in the Jordanian capital with the latest on the investigation and the mood of the people -- Hala.

HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the latest on the investigation, and according to what officials are telling CNN, is that three suicide bombers detonated explosives strapped to their bodies, killing 56 people and wounding more than 120. That is the latest official toll.

I am standing right now outside of the Radisson hotel, one of the sites of the deadly bomb blasts and where the highest number of casualties happened and where the most people were killed, because the suicide bomber apparently exploded his belt full of explosives and ammunitions and ball bearings, apparently, to cause the most amount of casualty.

What you are seeing here are pictures from inside the hotel where a wedding celebration was taking place and where the groom says, when CNN spoke to him in the last 24 hours, his father was killed, his father-in-law, and at least 10 members of his family.

This is a day of shock, but also of defiance in Amman, Jordan, and in Jordan as a whole, where many Jordanians are saying, even though Abu Musab al Zarqawi is Jordanian-born, and his group, al Qaeda in Iraq, is claiming responsibility for the attacks that killed so many here, they say Abu Musab al Zarqawi is no Jordanian. He's a terrorist, and he is acting against the citizens of this country.

For many years since the beginning oft Iraq war, people have been saying and analysts have been warning that a country like Jordan was a likely target because of the fact that it is perceived as being close to the United States, and because some in the Arab world say it facilitated the invasion of Iraq. For all those reasons, this is what some analysts are saying explains why terrorists would target a country like Jordan.

Now, our Guy Raz wrapped up the events of the last 24 hours, and he filed this report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GUY RAZ, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Debris, stained with the evidence of human death. A hallway of carnage. And a solemn procession of rage led by the Jordanian monarch, King Abdullah.

This is the Radisson hotel in Amman, where 300 people were celebrating a wedding.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It appears that the suicide bomber was strapped with explosives and blew himself up inside the wedding hall, causing most of the casualties.

RAZ: The dead and maimed are still being counted. Investigators now believe the third explosion at the Days Inn hotel was carried out by a lone bomber as well.

A senior official involved in the investigation has told CNN that the bomber entered the hotel bar, ordered orange juice, and then attempted to detonate his device. When it failed, he walked out, but returned 15 minutes later, and tragically succeeded.

Among those killed at the Days Inn, three Chinese nationals.

Investigators say witnesses described an Arab man with a distinctly non-Jordanian accent.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): The operations are brutal, cowardly, and terrorist. We have no option but to fight it with all the power we have.

RAZ: The key suspect is this man, Abu Musab al Zarqawi, the alleged leader of the Iraqi insurgency and chief of al Qaeda operations in Iraq. His group is now claiming responsibility.

(on camera): Jordan is now a country in mourning. Its flags flying at half-staff. But with the initial shock subsiding, the citizens of this country are now demanding answers and justice.

Guy Raz, CNN, Amman.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GORANI: And we will be joined live by the country's deputy prime minister, Marwan Muasher, who will talk to us in just a few minutes about these attacks and what they mean for Jordan in the future.

Michael, Zain, back to you.

VERJEE: Hala Gorani reporting to us from Amman.

Thanks, Hala.

We want to hear from you on this.

HOLMES: That's right. We want to know what you think of the bombings in Jordan. E-mail us, YWT@CNN.com. We'll read some of your comments later on YOUR WORLD TODAY.

Normally we ask a question at this time. This time we are just asking for your thoughts.

All right. Residents of Amman flood to the streets, as we said earlier, to protest those terrorist bombings.

VERJEE: Really gauging Jordan's response is what we want to do next. That's coming up on YOUR WORLD TODAY. We are going to speak to Jordan's deputy prime minister, as well as to a journalist who lost two friends in the bombings.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GORANI: I am Hala Gorani coming to you live from Amman, Jordan, for a special hour-long YOUR WORLD TODAY, "Terror in Jordan."

I am now joined in the Jordanian capital by the deputy prime minister, Marwan Muasher.

Thank you very much, sir, for being with us.

Tell me, now that you've had a chance to digest, almost 24 hours since these deadly suicide attacks, what's going through your mind?

MARWAN MUASHER, JORDANIAN DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER: Well, certainly we are not used to such attacks in the past. And this is truly unprecedented in Jordan. But Jordanian resolve is very strong today. I don't think we've ever seen Jordanian people as united as we have today in condemning such attacks.

What is going on in our thoughts is we need to stay united. We need to stay strong. We need business to go on as usual.

But we also need to really send a very strong message that terror, terrorist attacks on civilians, should not be justified for any reason. This culture of bombing people for whatever reason or whatever cause should not be justified.

GORANI: Now, can I ask you, did intelligence services in Jordan have any inkling of an idea that this kind of plot was being prepared? Because it seemed very well organized, near simultaneous. It's not something that was at all on the radar of...

MUASHER: Well, we've always been concerned that al Qaeda is going to try something in Jordan, and in fact they have managed to infiltrate some rockets into Aqaba a few -- a few months ago. But in an area where terrorist activity is on the rise, it is almost impossible to prevent every single one of them.

Of course we were, you know, worried about such an attack. And in fact...

GORANI: But it wasn't on the radar of secret service?

MUASHER: No. Well -- well, we have prevented many such attacks in the past without publicizing them. Unfortunately, we could not stop this one.

GORANI: Because some critics are saying there was no security at the hotels, anybody could have slipped in.

MUASHER: No, there was security. I think that where there are shortcomings will teach us a very good lesson in how to overcome them in the future.

GORANI: Now, how might this change, this tragedy that has hit your country, the relationship that Jordan has with the United States, for instance, since some analysts are saying the reason Jordan was targeted in the first place is because of the perception that it's friendly with America?

MUASHER: The relationship with the United States is a very strategic one, and it has nothing to do with such attacks. These people are using all kinds of excuses to further their cause, whether it is the relationship with the United States or our support for the Iraqi people, or a score of other excuses.

What we are saying is, you know, bombing innocent civilians for whatever reason should not be justified, should not be tolerated by any society. And we hope that this is going to send a very strong signal in the area that would stand against these activities.

GORANI: If increased security cannot prevent 100 percent of the attacks, and a determined suicide bomber with a belt full of explosives will end up slipping through every once in a while, how do you prevent them? What do you -- how do you go about putting together a system, a strategy?

MUASHER: Well, no system is foolproof. And every system is going to have an incident or two.

We remain very confident of the abilities of our security services. We think we can prevent such attacks in the future. But I think we are more confident with the abilities of our citizens. Today we've seen a lot of demonstrations in the streets that are...

GORANI: That's what we've been hearing, by the way, for our viewers wondering why all these car horns were going off.

MUAHSER: Exactly. I mean, the opposition, as well as, you know, the pro-government forces in the country today are all united in saying this is wrong, this has to stop. The silent majority has to stand up and be counted and condemn these attacks in the strongest way possible. GORANI: A quick question about the future, because Jordan really relies a lot on outsiders coming in here, on tourists, on money being invested in this country to prosper. Do you think this is going to rattle some nerves and scare people off?

MUASHER: We've always been an open society. We've always been a moderate society. And we will continue to do so.

We will not let terrorists dictate the pace of how we live our life. And I think if there is any message, it is that business is going on as usual.

The hotel in which the terrorist attack took place yesterday is back to normal. And I think this is the way we want to conduct our affairs.

Our resolve is very strong. We will not let the terrorists dictate the pace of life in this country.

GORANI: Deputy Prime Minister Marwan Muasher, many thanks for joining us here on CNN and CNN International as we see a candlelight procession walk past you there in support of the victims of these attacks.

Thank you so much, sir.

MUAHSER: Thank you.

GORANI: All right.

Now we're going to turn our attention from the government point of view to ordinary citizens in Jordan and how they are reacting in the aftermath of these attacks to the tragedy that has hit this country.

And I'm joined now by Rana Sabbagh, who is a journalist here in Jordan.

Thanks so much for being with us.

Now, tell me, we saw these demonstrations under perhaps thousands of ordinary Jordanians saying we support our king, we support our country. This is very representative of Jordan's position right now as a whole?

RANA SABBAGH, AMMAN REPORTER, "THE TIMES": I mean, these attacks have definitely unified the street. And unfortunately, I went today up to the house where Abu Musab used to live, and all his family lived, and I sensed a tremendous shift in the public opinion there.

Four months ago, when I was last there, people were, you know, singing praises. They were saying Abu Musab was a real hero, he was fighting the American infidels. They were supporting his acts. And today I have not seen one person who did not condemn these attacks.

GORANI: So this is interesting, because it really means that public opinion based on the fact that these attacks are killing civilians, Jordanian's Muslims, is starting to turn. Is that what you are sensing?

SABBAGH: Yes, this is exactly what I am trying to say. You know, I sensed that for the first time, people will have to really do some soul searching and decide whether they want to come clear and speak out against this guy, against Zarqawi, against using Islam, you know, to commit such acts of terror.

And I think this is going to put a big challenge on the Muslim Brotherhood Movement, the single largest and most influential movement in the country that has so far been very wishy-washy on condemning whatever acs Abu Musab is doing in Iraq. You know, they were always saying we are with the resistance, we support the Iraqi resistance. And they have never come out clean in condemning.

GORANI: How do you think Jordanians will react to the fact that according to at least what some officials are saying in the United States, that some of these suicide bombers might have been Iraqis coming into Jordan?

SABBAGH: I mean, I think of course now the sentiments are boiling. But I think Jordanians at the end of the day are rational people. And they will make a difference between a few Iraqis, you know, that are as bad as Abu Musab, and the rest of the Iraqis, who are also victims like us, you k now, victims of Abu Musab himself.

GORANI: What options does the Jordanian government have now in dealing with this type of crisis? I mean, what is it that they are going to have to do to restore confidence among their people, that this is a threat they are going to be able to manage?

SABBAGH: I mean, I think -- I hate to say that again, but I think this tragic incident has unified the Jordanians across the political spectrum. And this is going to make life easy for the government.

You know, they will not have to put up a fight in trying to impose stricter measures. You know, probably stricter security measures. But I don't think it's going to affect Jordan's relations with the Americans or with the Israelis, because these are strategic cornerstones of, you know, public diplomacy.

GORANI: As you heard the deputy prime minister say. We have got to leave it there. Rana Sabbagh, thank you so much for joining us here live on CNN.

We're going to take a short break here on our special program, "Terror in Jordan." We'll be right back after this. Don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: Jordan, as we've reported, is a key U.S. ally in the war on terror. And the two countries share some important political intelligence and military ties. To discuss that relationship, we are joined now from London by our chief international correspondent, Christiane Amanpour. We are also going to be joined by our Pentagon correspondent, Barbara Starr.

Christiane, let's start with you. This political relationship has been a long one. It has been an important one. But has it been a helpful one to Jordan?

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, yes, in the long run. But obviously no when it comes to issues and incidents like this.

Look, King Hussein of Jordan decades -- for decades took the strategic decision that he was going to be an ally of the West, a bridge between West and East. His son, King Abdullah II of Jordan, has taken the same strategic decision. And sometimes it has been painful, and many times it has paid off.

They have very close intelligence cooperation, very close political and economic ties as well. And of course, Jordan being one of the only countries in the Middle East to have, along with the United States, negotiated peace with Israel.

So Jordan an incredibly important player in the Middle East. But by the same token, being in such a vulnerable, not only physical location, right next door to Iraq now, right in the sort of center of the hot zone of that area, and many people believe that this was perhaps a matter of time.

Look, even before the Iraq war there were terrorist attacks plotted against Jordan. Many of them were foiled. Particularly the millennium plot just before the millennium.

The Radisson hotel, according to reports, was one of the targets during the millennium plot. And it is one that has been attacked in the last 24 hours.

So there's a lot of reasons why this has happened. But, you know, the occupation of Iraq, the war in Iraq has just made it easier for those who in any event were bent on this kind of jihad to operate, to plan, and to carry out their terrorist endeavors.

HOLMES: There's another aspect, too, isn't there, Christiane? And that is that Jordan is not just at odds with many of its neighbors, but also with a large segment of its very own population.

AMANPOUR: Well, I think it's at odds in certain ways. It is not the same kind of friction that you find in many of the other Arab countries.

Yes, there are periodic problems in Jordan. People wanting more rights, people wanting more economic benefits. But it's definitely not the same as it is in some of the much more Draconian Arab countries. And there is a sense that there is an effort under way by the king of Jordan, and before him, King Hussein, to try to bridge those differences. You know, every two days it seems we are hearing new reform plans mapped out by the Jordanian monarchy. Yes, there is friction. Yes, there is the Muslim Brotherhood. But it is not in the same virulence as it is in many of the other Arab countries.

And I think, though, what's really interesting is two things that we just heard from Hala Gorani's interviews. One, that the journalist, Rana Sabbagh, said that she had detected a shift in support in Abu Musab al Zarqawi's neighborhood. And also, for Marwan Muasher, that it's time for the majority to speak out.

And many in the Islamic world do not approve of this kind of mass slaughter of civilians. But it's time for them to really speak out and to say enough.

HOLMES: Indeed. Christiane, thanks.

Christiane Amanpour in London -- Zain.

VERJEE: David Ensor, Michael, joins us now from Washington to shed some light on intelligence sharing between the U.S. and Jordan.

David, how extensive is it?

DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's very extensive. They are very close intelligence allies. And U.S. counterterrorism officials are saying they view the claim of responsibility of the attacks that we've already heard from the Zarqawi group as credible. If it were not, one official said it would have been contradicted by now.

Zarqawi was at the top of their list of suspects from the start anyway because of his history of organizing attacks or attempts in Jordan and his rhetoric against the Jordanian monarchy. Earlier in his life, of course he spent time in prison in his home country of Jordan for various ordinary crimes.

U.S. officials say they understand the Jordanian authorities are looking for vehicles that may have been left behind by the suicide bombers. And obviously they'll pay particular attention to any with Iraqi license plates that they might find near the hotels that were hit, since, of course, Zarqawi is now the head of the al Qaeda operations in neighboring Iraq -- Zain.

VERJEE: David Ensor reporting.

Thanks, David -- Michael.

HOLMES: Well, the U.S. has a substantial military presence in the region. How much of a factor is that in inciting terrorist activity? We explore that issue now with Barbara Starr at the Pentagon.

Barbara, how significant is it, that presence? And what sort of impact has it had? We've seen -- we have impacts in Saudi Arabia, for example. What about Jordan? BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, it is very significant, Michael. You know, even last night, here in the United States, within moments really of the attack being seen, officials of the military, senior officials, were very concerned because they were speaking immediately about how valuable an ally Jordan is with the United States military in the global war on terror.

This very close relationship with the U.S. military has been a very sensitive line for the Jordanians to walk, of course, during the Iraq war and over the last several months of the insurgency. They knew they were walking a fine line. They knew it was delicate. But King Abdullah and his government had continued to support the U.S. military and the effort, indeed.

In Jordan, at their academies, they were training Iraqi police inside Jordan, and then getting them back into Iraq to try and get those Iraqi security forces up to speed. U.S. Special Forces and Jordanian special forces have long trained together. U.S. Navy ships call at the port of Aqaba. In fact, there was that attack in Aqaba a few months back.

This is a relationship that is really fundamental between the two militaries. It is very personal. King Abdullah and his brothers having very direct relationships with senior members of the U.S. military.

So, it will be very important to the military to assist Jordan, to be supportive of Jordan in this time frame. And to do whatever they can behind the scenes to help.

HOLMES: All right, Barbara. Thanks.

We want to thank all of our correspondents for giving us their insights, Christiane Amanpour, David Ensor, Barbara Starr. Thanks to you all.

VERJEE: Our special report "Terror in Jordan" continues in just a moment.

HOLMES: Yes. Coming up, he is the most wanted man in Iraq. We are going to have a closer look at the global impact of al Qaeda in Iraq mastermind and Jordanian national Abu Musab al Zarqawi.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GORANI: Welcome back to this YOUR WORLD TODAY special, "Terror in Jordan." We are outside the Radisson Hotel, the site of the bomb explosion that killed the most people a little less than 24 hours ago here in the Jordanian capital.

Earlier my colleague Brent Sadler surveyed the damage inside the Radisson Hotel with the Radisson Hotel manager. Here's the report he filed.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRENT SADLER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Let's just walk along here and see how far we can get, because the area is now a lot clearer than it was. I know Jordanian security is still very much in control.

BASSAN BANNA, RADISSON HOTEL: We are -- I mean we don't want to -- because it's a crime scene, I don't know if we can go in further or not.

SADLER: No, I don't think we'll go in. They won't allow us. But maybe we can just get to the edge here.

BANNA: That's the maximum edge. I can see all our stuff, from managers to everybody, engineering is clearing up. We want to make it happen, you know? We want to make sure that things go by and we're not going to let this happen.

SADLER: In that area there, have you been inside?

BANNA: I've been inside. It's been cleared. Most of the people who were inside managed to go out safely. We checked under the rubble and there was no people left anymore, I mean since last night.

SADLER: But that area over there, behind the soldier, that is where the most casualties and lots of life suffered.

BANNA: Actually, on the left side, because this is the wall between the bar and the ballroom. So most of the casualties happened in the right side of the ballroom, where the suicide bomber blew himself up.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GORANI: A wedding reception disrupted by such a bloody and lethal attack. I'll be joined live by Brent Sadler toward the end of this special program, and we'll talk about what's next for Jordan as it digests this wave of violence.

Back to you, Michael.

HOLMES: All right, Hala, thanks very much for reporting there.

Well, as we've mentioned, terror master mind and the most wanted man in Iraq, Abu Musab al Zarqawi. He is the one claiming responsibility for these attacks in Jordan. While he spreads his terror to his home country, he continues to target civilians in Iraq, as well. In a moment, we're going to have a conversation about Zarqawi's breach in the region.

But first, let's go to Baghdad. Aneesh Raman is there with the latest on the violence there. We have been focusing so much, Aneesh, on the tragic events in Jordan. But a lot of tragedy continuing in Baghdad.

ANEESH RAMAN, CNN BAGHDAD CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Michael. Good afternoon. At least three suicide attacks ripping through Iraq today, the deadliest taking place around 9:30 a.m. this morning, at a restaurant in central Baghdad. A suicide bomber walked into the restaurant that was filled with traffic from morning. People were going in to have breakfast. He then blew himself up. At least 34 people are confirmed dead, 25 others wounded.

You see the pictures there of the aftermath. This restaurant was right on Abu Nawas Street, a main commercial thoroughfare that run through the Iraqi capital. Now, the U.S. military has said that this attack bears all the hallmarks, yet again, of al Qaeda in Iraq. A spectacular attack with someone walking in as a suicide bomber.

Today Major General Rick Lynch held a press conference -- he's a coalition spokesperson -- and spoke to the continued capabilities of Abu Musab al Zarqawi.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAJOR GENERAL RICK LYNCH, U.S. ARMY: He still has the capability of recruiting suicide bombers, training those suicide bombers and giving them ammunitions. And that's what happened in Baghdad today and that's what happened in Jordan yesterday. And that will continue.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAMAN: Now there are any number of elements, Michael, that make up Iraq's insurgency. al Qaeda in Iraq, though, is clearly the most known. They carry out the biggest attacks. They are the ones often behind the suicide bombings, the likes of which we saw this morning -- Michael.

HOLMES: Aneesh Raman in Baghdad. Aneesh, thanks -- Zain.

VERJEE: Michael, to discuss the impact Zarqawi's having on the global war on terror, we are joined now by Loretta Napoleoni. She joins us from New York. She's contributing writer for the magazine "Foreign Policy" and author of "Insurgent Iraq." From London, Sajjan Gohel, a terrorism expert with the Asia-Pacific Foundation. And Zaki Chehab joins us from Washington. He's the political editor of the "Al Hayat" newspaper and the author of "Inside the Resistance."

Loretta Napoleoni, to you first. What kind of global reach does Abu Musab al Zarqawi have beyond Iraq?

LORETTA NAPOLEONI, WRITER, "FOREIGN POLICY" MAGAZINE: Well, at the moment, he has quite a large global reach. Before the beginning of the Iraq war, and even before Colin Powell actually presented him in February 2003 as the link between Saddam Hussein and al Qaeda, he had no global reach at all. It was a very, very small time jihadist.

VERJEE: Zaki Chehab, you've not met Abu Musab al Zarqawi personally,, but you have spoken and you have interviewed several militants that work with him. What did they tell you? What was their ideology? ZAKI CHEHAB, POLITICAL EDITOR, "AL-HAYAT-LBC": In fact, from his day one in Afghanistan, Zarqawi made it clear that it is his intention is to concentrate his activities in Jordan and occupied territories. That's why from day one, he opted to have his own training camps in Afghanistan separate from the camps of -- belongs bin Laden. And most of the people who worked with him at that time or joined his camp were either of Palestinian origin or Jordanians.

From that day, it was clear that Zarqawi is concentrating on that part of the world. Definitively after the fall of Taliban regime and the ninth of September attacks, Zarqawi moved, you know, slowly, via the Iranian borders towards north of Iraq. But a few months later, his group starts gathering after they disperse into the Iranian territory as a result of the American and Iraqi attacks.

VERJEE: All right.

CHEHAB: So the intention of Zarqawi was just to make sure that he is active in this part of the world. Iraq, Jordan, at some stage, West Bank.

VERJEE: Sajjan Gohel, is Zarqawi directly linked to Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda, or does his al Qaeda in Iraq subscribe more to the ideology of al Qaeda? .

SAJJAN GOHEL, ASIA-PACIFIC FOUNDATION: Well, this is very important issue, because as we've seen that al Qaeda the organization has now evolved into al Qaeda the ideology. It's a group of doctrines that Osama bin Laden has set out, anti-Western, anti-secular, overthrowing governments, recreating the caliphate.

And what you're finding is that groups throughout the world have their own leadership, their own cell structure, their own financing. But they're bonded by those same goals. And al Zarqawi is an example of what Bin Laden wants to create: a decentralization, people to follow in his aftermath. And as we're seeing, he's doing it with devastating consequences.

VERJEE: Loretta Napoleoni, he is also trying to undermine or ignite sectarian differences in Iraq, right?

NAPOLEONI: Absolutely. This is very much part of his strategy, which started right at the beginning of his entry into the Iraqi insurgency in summer 2003. And from summer 2003 until November 2004, when he finally got recognized by Osama bin Laden, he actually had to aim correspondents with bin Laden, whereby he was explaining the reason why a sectarian war was essential to prevent a united front of Sunni and Shia, which will be nationally and secular against coalition forces. And so far, he has succeeded.

VERJEE: Zaki Chehab, he succeeded in killing ordinary civilians, Arabs, Muslims, Jordanians mostly in the attack yesterday. A wedding party. Don't attacks like this, targeting civilians and Arabs, alienate Abu Musab al Zarqawi from the wider Muslim and Arab community if he's trying to actually garner their support? What were the militants that you spoke to that work for him telling you about that? CHEHAB: Definitely, they try to just have such attack, you know, which target civilians and the Sunnis, and the Sunni-populated area or Shia-populated area. Definitely the kind of statements Zarqawi have issued over the last two, three years was, you know, mainly concentrating on describing religious Shiite leadership as emphasis, because of their cooperation with the United States and coalition forces.

Definitely the kind of intention Zarqawi's, like, to create a civil war between Sunnis and Shiites, which hopefully moderates on both sides have managed to avoid it.

But the fact that such attack as the one that happened yesterday in Jordan, I am sure this one was maybe a big change is going to be in terms of popularity of Zarqawi, who have enjoyed until very recently some popularity in his hometown, in Al Zarqa, and maybe among other extreme elements in Jordan and in Iraq.

Definitely, the kind of targets he chose yesterday will affect the tourism in Jordan at the end of day. And it will just put a large number of people out of jobs if Zarqawi continued such a policy.

VERJEE: Sajjan Gohel, is his organization a rival to Osama Bin Laden or an ally?

GOHEL: Well certainly as we've seen, that initially when Al Zarqawi had his terror camps in Afghanistan, they were based in Harat, which was separate from Osama bin Laden's, and they seemed to operate on different strands. But nevertheless, their tactics were very much the same. When Al Zarqawi moved to Iraq, he renamed his group from Altawi (ph) jihad to Al Qaeda in Iraq, and The Two Rivers. And as we are seeing, he's very much endearing to the Bin Laden goals. And of course they have exchanged a number of messages between Al Qaeda, which is probably now in Pakistan, and now between Al Zarqawi. And they have been talking about strategies recently, but which hasn't been confirmed to be genuine.

VERJEE: But they haven't all agreed?

(CROSSTALK)

GOHEL: That's right, Al Zarqawi was told by Ayman Al Zawahiri, the deputy of Al Qaeda, that it's not a good idea to target civilians, particularly Muslims. And with the recent attacks in Jordan, perhaps this is an indication that Al Zarqawi is going to do things his own way.

VERJEE: Sajjan Gohel, Loretta Napoleoni And Zaki Chehab, thank you so much.

To Hala now -- Hala. Oh, we're take a short break right now. We'll be back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED: The ayes to the right, 291. The nos to the left, 322.

(CHEERING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: That was the scene 24 hours ago in the British House of Commons. The British Prime Minister Tony Blair's proposal to hold terrorism suspects for up to 90 days without being charged is defeated. If it had been passed, it would have been the toughest anti-terror law in all of Europe.

Welcome back to CNN International, this special edition of YOUR WORLD TODAY, "Terror in Jordan."

Well, governments right across the continents have rushed to toughen their anti-terror laws since the London subway bombings in July. The United States did the same thing after the attacks on New York and Washington four years ago. Australia also did the same thing.

Are authorities going to too far in the war against terror. Is that even possible?

Joining us now to debate this from New York, we have George Bauries. He is a former FBI agent. From London, Eric Metcalfe, director of human rights policy at the Human Rights Group.

Gentlemen, thanks so much. Let's start with you, Eric Metcalfe, if we can. What can governments do to protect their citizens from terror without violating individual right? Surely some rights willing by the bide?

ERIC METCALFE, HUMAN RIGHTS GROUP "JUSTICE": I don't agree that some rights have to go by the bide. It's perfectly reasonable that we are facing a serious terrorist threat that governments should be giving the police every resource necessary in order to fight terrorism. But they always have to abide by the protection of fundamental rights. Because after all, it's about protecting not just the society, but a free society.

HOLMES: What's the line, though, do you think? I mean, is there a line? There's wiretaps, there's security cameras in the streets, particularly in London, place like that. Where does it become unfair infringement on civil liberties?

METCALFE: Well, in Europe, at least, you have a very clear set of standards from the European Commission on Human Rights. In other countries, you have constitutional rights. I think the lines are very clearly drawn. They've already been clearly drawn over many decades.

In the United Kingdom, you've had the lines drawn from Northern Ireland's terrorism, and I don't really think that there's a drastic need to change the kind of standards that we have in relation to human rights merely because we are facing a new kind of terrorism. I don't agree with that analysis.

HOLMES: George Bauries, do you?

GEORGE BAURIES, FMR. AGENT: Well, I think there's a clear difference between a physical search and how that might impede on an individual's rights versus a search of someone's home, or property or information they may have in their residence. So I think a distinction is needed, and I know in the United States, as a former FBI agent, it's very clear where those lines are, and there are tremendous efforts in place to make sure that those lines are not crossed.

But that same issue doesn't relate to additional security at maybe a hotel lobby, or additional checks at an airport. I think we need to separate the issues of physical security and an actual search by a government agency.

HOLMES: Well, we're talking about Jordan, so let's talk about that. They have a very efficient intelligence service. They've thwarted attacks in the past, not always playing by rules familiar to us. George, what should they do? Can you see a crackdown being a good idea there?

BAURIES: Well, I've worked with MI-5, MI-6, SAS on overseas operations, and they're an exceptional group, and that country has particular rules, and they follow those rules, and we have to understand that the aggressiveness sometimes is needed because of the aggressiveness of the enemy and how fast they are in developing strategies and implementing their operations globally.

HOLMES: So in the wake of the Jordan attacks, do you think they need to set a tone in that country in terms of the entire region, George?

BAURIES: I think a stronger presence will be needed. I've never been to Jordan. But speaking to other individuals who have, there was more of a relaxed-type of approach to general security. So security was generally seen as more of a passive covert fashion, and I think more of an overt security presence in hotel lobbies, and other areas will be needed to protect against the threat.

HOLMES: Eric Metcalfe, do you think over-security is all right in public, places like hotels and the like, searches of people, perhaps as they enter lobbies of hotels?

METCALF: It depends about the proportionality of those searches and whether those searches are intelligence led or whether you're engaging in something we would disagree with, such as racial profiling.

And generally speaking, no, we don't have any objection to increased security in public areas. But we're concerned that as kind of measures have been proposed in the latest British legislation, which is fundamentally abridging due-process rights, and fair-trial rights and freedom of expression. Being searched in an airport, that's a perfectly reasonable measure, but being subject to detention without charge for three months, that's unacceptable.

HOLMES: All right, I want to thank both of our guest. In New York, George Bauries, a former FBI agent, Eric Metcalfe on the right of your screen, director of human rights policy for the human rights group Justice.

Thank, gentlemen.

BAURIES: Thank you.

VERJEE: Jordanian's really, Michael, in a state of shock after the devastating terror attacks.

HOLMES: Yes, not surprisingly. Up next on this special edition of YOUR WORLD TODAY. how will the people of Jordan recover from this?

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HOLMES: All right, as we've been reporting, one of the suicide bombers chose to detonate just as a bride and groom were about to greet their wedding guests at the Radisson hotel in Amman. Well, the grief-stricken groom, who lost as many as ten relatives including his father, says, quote, "this is not Islam. This is a terrorist fighting our capital."

Well, for more on what lies ahead for Jordanians, let's go back to Amman, bring in Hala Gorani and our own Brent Sadler. Over to you both.

GORANI: Yes, Michael. Brent, you've been covering the events in the last 24 hours. What was one of the most interesting and memorable things you saw in the aftermath of these bombings?

SADLER: Well, I think earlier today the visit by Queen Rania of Jordan, and not long after, the king himself had said that the perpetrators would be eventually caught by the long arm of justice. He condemned the perpetrators of the attack as cowards against innocence.

And we saw Queen Rania of Jordan inside one of the hospitals, very, very distressed by what she was seeing, particularly among children who were suffering shrapnel wounds. And she did break out in tears in one stage at part of that visit, Queen Rania saying that she felt she couldn't be anywhere else this day, apart from showing solidarity with her people -- her extended family she called them -- and, of course, the royal family that thinks this is an attack against them and their pro-American policy.

GORANI: What about the demonstrations in the street in support of the king? These attacks seem to have unified Jordanians, can we say that?

SADLER: Indeed, this has brought many thousands of Jordanians onto the sheets. They're still out here tonight. For them, it's no real mystery. They know that know that Musab Zarqawi has been plotting attacks. He's done some successful events in the past, nothing of this magnitude.

And for them, they've been out protesting not only against Zarqawi's terror attacks against the city, but also protesting, rallying behind the royal family, its policies past, and its continuing policies present.

GORANI: All right, our senior international correspondent, Brent Sadler. Thanks very much. And now we are going to show our viewers a package that we've put together with some of the more memorable scenes of the last 24 hours. Take a look.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were on the way to enter the hall where the ceremony was going to happen, and there was a blast inside the hall. And there was a lot of people who died.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Suddenly everything exploded. You just saw smoke.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The cars are damaged that were in front of the hotel. All of it happened outside the hotel, not inside the hotel, right in front of the hotel. And there was also a car in the street that was passing by it looks like that was hit by the explosion.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We as Jordanians are determined and emphasize the fact that we are one people here in Jordan, determined to not let those people get to us.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anybody who blows himself up in a wedding hall is not somebody who wants the good of this country or the good of any human being.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just walking around today and seeing the children and the injured, all innocent lives. This was a really cowardly act.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: People are shocked, angry. They are in disbelief.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As a Jordanian, I regret to see this in Jordan. And we know that this is not a normal situation. And we know that, and we know and we are sure that our government is going to face this thing, and they are going to trace them down and they are going to bring them to justice.

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GORANI: And this concludes our special hour on YOUR WORLD TODAY. Terror in Jordan, 24 hours now -- just a little bit less than 24 hours since the first suicide bomber exploded himself in one of three hotels in downtown Amman.

For Michael Holmes and Zain Verjee at the CNN Center, and for Brent Sadler and Guy Raz covering the events here on the ground and me, Hala Gorani, thanks for watching and see you after the break.

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