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News Conference on Florida Crash That Killed Seven Children; Landslide Victory by Hamas

Aired January 26, 2006 - 11:59   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Daryn Kagan, live at CNN world headquarters in Atlanta. We will soon rejoin YOUR WORLD TODAY with international coverage, including coverage of the Palestinian elections and the landslide victory by Hamas.
But first, we want to go to north Florida. That is where a terrible accident took place yesterday, taking the lives of seven children from a single family.

With more on that, let's go to our Rusty Dornin, standing by waiting for a news conference to begin -- Rusty.

RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Daryn, we're just moments away from a news conference that's scheduled to begin at noon here in Union County with local officials, the sheriff's department, the highway patrol, the school district, as well as a representative of the family of the victims that were killed. Remember there were seven children killed in that car, struck from behind by a semi trailer in broad daylight.

Police are now saying that the man was not paying attention. There were no skid marks in front of the crash.

He smashed into the car. It burst into flames, killing all seven children. And then smashing into a school bus in front of that, injuring five of those children.

So we are going to be hearing more about Alvin Wilkerson, the driver of that truck, apparently was in the hospital, has been questioned by police. Apparently, he did have some other citations for driving under unsafe conditions.

They think the charges will be pending against him. But they are not sure at this point what those charges could be.

Meantime, of course, a horrific development of the family. The mother of this adoptive family, her father died of a massive heart attack overnight when he heard his grandchildren had died.

The press conference is beginning. Let's listen.

SHERIFF JERRY WHITEHEAD, UNION COUNTY, FLORIDA: ... and a spokesman for the family, Church of Christ here in Lake Butler, Scott Fisher.

I wanted to briefly speak to you folks in reference to not the accident -- we have Bill Leeper with the highway patrol here who is prepared to talk to you about the accident -- but the impact on our community and what's going on so far.

We do have children involved from all three of the schools, Lake Butler Elementary School, our middle school here, Lake Butler Middle School, and Union County High School. We have grief counselors on site, and everything is going very well.

I've talked with the family this morning. And I guess after the accident, it's been reported -- it's well known that the grandfather had a heart attack at the residence and is deceased.

At this time, we are available for any questions. Mr. Fisher wants to give a -- Minister Fisher wants to give a statement in reference to the family at this time.

PASTOR SCOTT FISHER, FAMILY SPOKESMAN: Thank you, Sheriff Whitehead.

Our community has suffered a great loss. And on behalf of the Mann and the Scott families, we wish to thank everyone for the outcry of support.

We thank the sheriff's department. And we thank the rescue for their professionalism and their compassion in this time. We also thank everyone with the outcries of support.

The family, of course, is deeply in grief. They have lost their children. Terry and Brenda Mann lost Nicky (ph) at 15 years old; and Elizabeth at 15 years old; Johnny at 13 years old; Heaven at the young age of 3, and Anthony at 20 months old.

The grief is unbearable, and we just ask that you continue to pray for them, support them. But most importantly at this time, to please respect their privacy.

They, I'm sure, will be making statements later as the impact has eased. And pictures will be made available to you.

The city of Lake Butler has set up a fund. If you wish to help out with this family's crisis, there's the Mann-Scott family fund at the Community State Bank. If you wish to send a donation to that fund, you may call 386-496-3333. That's 386-496-3333.

And also, the Mann family memorial fund at the Mercantile Bank is set up. You can reach them at 1-800-238-8681.

We thank you so much for all of your support. And we just ask that you continue to pray for this family in their time of loss.

Thank you.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)

FISHER: Honey, there aren't any -- hardly any words that you can say. We just cry with them, we pray with them. And we let them know that this community is strong, that we are all here, that they're not alone, that it's not just this community, but the whole nation mourns with them the loss of these children.

We tell them that maybe the children aren't really ours, they are god's, and he just called them home. They are dealing with this the best they can. And we are just so proud of them for showing the strength that they do have.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)

FISHER: Scott Fisher, S-C-O-T-T F-I-S-H-E-R.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)

WHITEHEAD: We are assisting the highway patrol with the investigation. Spokesman Bill Leeper is here. Lieutenant Leeper is here, and he will brief you on anything he has in that area.

Basically, I have Allen Parrish, who is the EMS director. And if you have any questions of him in reference to the medical concerns, he's preferred talk to you briefly about that.

QUESTION: What's the condition of the children?

ALLEN PARRISH, EMS DIRECTOR: As of last notification from hospital and family members, the patients were listed in stable condition at this time.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)

PARRISH: At this time, I do not have that knowledge of individual injuries for each individual patient. I do know that as of this morning, at 8:00 a.m., they were all listed in stable condition.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)

PARRISH: Both of those patients as well are listed in stable condition.

DORNIN: Are they expected to be released today?

PARRISH: To my knowledge, no.

QUESTION: Sheriff, can you clarify about Wilkerson, his status, where he is? You guys are watching where he's going?

WHITEHEAD: I would rather highway patrol talk to you about that. I am aware of it. But Lieutenant Leeper would have that information. And we are aware, but basically we've been just assisting in the crash, the sheriff's office has. And my -- our input has been to try to help our community through this tragedy.

We are a small community, close-knit. And it's just been real hard.

I mean, I have a daughter in high school who was with Nicky (ph) yesterday at the high school and have children in the middle school and elementary school. It's just been a tough, tough night.

Everybody's tired. The family wanted to speak to you. But they just are not in a position to do that. And if you had any other questions, I'm sure that Lieutenant Leeper would be able to answer.

DORNIN: Lieutenant Leeper, yes, can we get him to the microphone?

WHITEHEAD: Pardon?

DORNIN: Could we get Lieutenant Leeper to step up?

WHITEHEAD: Yes, he's coming next.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)

LT. WILLIAM LEEPER, FLORIDA HIGHWAY PATROL: First of all, let me say on behalf of the Florida Highway Patrol, our thoughts and prayers certainly go out to the family during this tragic time. And especially this community.

As the sheriff said, it is a very close-knit community. And everybody knows everybody. And that's the sad part.

But there's nothing new in the investigation other than what you already know. It's continuing.

As far as any charges go, there will be charges. But they will not be made probably for several weeks.

We are waiting on toxicology results to come back from the driver of the truck to make sure there was no drugs or alcohol involved. The investigators are still gathering information, statements. And they'll gather all that information when everything comes back, consult with state attorney's office, and at that time will determine exactly what charge to make.

DORNIN: But Lieutenant Leeper, he did indicate to you...

KAGAN: We've been listening in to a news conference with the latest on what was just simply a horrific incident in north Florida yesterday. A trucker slammed into a car that was filled with children. Seven children from that one family all perished in that crash as that car was slammed into a school bus. Others aboard the school bus were injured as well.

The grief of this one family losing seven children and then their grandfather when he learned the news, even the pastor that serves that family beyond words today.

You heard the law enforcement officials say there will be charges in the crash investigation as well. Those are still pending.

Much more coverage on this story ahead.

Right now, we are going to go to our other lead story, and that is what's happening with the Palestinian elections, and rejoin CNN International with their coverage in progress.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

JIM CLANCY, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: ... the IRA and Sinn Fein. And you say, well, you have in the past and you've allowed people to take into government.

Any soul searching there?

ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, certainly I'm sure at some levels here in Washington there is some soul searching. But you have to keep in mind, Jim, this is an administration, a White House that is very much engaged in a war against terrorists, a war against terrorism. So therein lies the dilemma for the United States.

President Bush, though, today seeking to cast the Palestinian election results as a wakeup call, in his words, saying that it was a wakeup call to the Old Guard Palestinian leadership.

Now, he was asked several times whether or not the United States would deal with Hamas as part of a Palestinian government. The president would not answer directly. He was asked many times. But here is part of what he had to say about Hamas.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't see how you can be a partner in peace if you advocate the destruction of a country as part of your -- of your platform. And I know you can't be a partner in peace if you have a -- if your party has got an armed wing.

And so, the elections just took place. We will watch very carefully about the formation of the government. But I will continue to remind people about what I just said, that if your -- if your platform is the destruction of Israel, it means you are not a partner in peace. And we're interested in peace.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUIJANO: So a delicate diplomatic dance, if you will, for the United States now, specifically for President Bush, who just a year ago was outlining that one of his major foreign policy goals was not only to help promote democracy but to support democracies, particularly in the Middle East. Now, of course, Hamas, which the U.S. has labeled a terrorist organization, perhaps gaining a majority of seats there in the Palestinian elections, President Bush, though, with this war on terror that the United States is currently engaged in, really a complicated situation for this administration.

President Bush saying that he is still committed to this two- state solution. But this, of course, complicating that vision greatly -- Jim.

CLANCY: All right. Praising the Palestinian democracy even while criticizing the victor in this -- in this vote. Elaine Quijano putting it in perspective from the White House -- Zain.

ZAIN VERJEE, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Jim, United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan is congratulating the Palestinian people on the peaceful elections. But in addressing the Hamas win, he said any group that takes part in a democratic process must take other actions as well.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KOFI ANNAN, SECRETARY-GENERAL, UNITED NATIONS: Any group that wishes to participate in the democratic process should ultimately disarm, because to carry weapons and participate in a democratic process and sit in parliament, there is a fundamental contradiction.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VERJEE: The Hamas victory is of course our question of the day.

CLANCY: We are asking you this: How will the Hamas victory affect the peace process?

VERJEE: E-mail us your thoughts at ywt@cnn.com. Tell us your name, where you're writing us from, and we're going to bring you the results a little bit later here on YOUR WORLD TODAY.

China says it supports a proposal by Moscow to let Tehran enrich uranium in Russia. That word as Iran's negotiator made the rounds in Beijing. Iran's trying to avoid sanctions by the U.N. Security Council.

The U.S. and some European nations say Iran is building a weapons program. China, which has veto power, also says it opposes any arbitrary sanctions on Iran.

CLANCY: Just ahead here on YOUR WORLD TODAY, our extensive coverage of the Palestinian elections continue.

VERJEE: We're going to analyze the stunning Hamas victory. This time we are going to bring you the Arab perspective.

Stay with CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CLANCY: You are looking at a live picture now. This is the election commission on the West Bank in Ramallah. They're getting ready for a press conference to announce live the results of the Palestinian parliamentary vote, the legislative council vote, a vote that Hamas appears to have handily won and Fatah has already conceded.

The government of Prime Minister Ahmed Qorei handing in the resignations.

We are going to take you to this live as soon as it happens so you can hear the official results of the Palestinian election and the victory of Hamas as it happens. Now, we've heard how the West has been somewhat rattled by this Hamas victory. Let's get an Arab point of view.

Joining us from the Global Economic Forum in Switzerland, Amre Moussa, the secretary-general of the Arab League.

A lot of people are stunned. Do you think that Arabs were as surprised as a lot of other people?

AMRE MOUSSA, ARAB LEAGUE SECRETARY-GENERAL: No, it was a possibility. This is the verdict as the people wanted it to be.

So, Jim, we have already called for democracy to be applied, to be followed as a system. Now democracy has spoken. There is a result, a set result to have to live with.

The people of Palestine have chosen the majority party over a minority party. This we can discuss today, tomorrow, et cetera. But the most important thing is what kind of commitment, what kind of policy that the new government would adopt, would follow?

This is an important question. It has nothing to do with the organization when it is a simple organization -- or simply an organization. It has a policy. But now in the government, if Hamas forms the government, so they will have to bear the responsibilities of a government, including of course making peace.

So, Hamas in the government, I believe, will be different than Hamas the organization.

CLANCY: Amre Moussa -- Amre Moussa, I'm sorry to interrupt you. I know you want to hear these results as well. We are going to take our viewers now live to Ramallah and hear from the election commission.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

HANA NASER, CENTRAL ELECTION COMMISSION (through translator): ... quiet, disciplined, and on behalf of the Central Elections Committee, I would like to mention first the names of the committee members: Dr. Rami Abdalah (ph), Lamis Arami (ph), Judge Abdullah Luzan (ph), Judge Marzan Ziselam (ph), Judge Iman (ph), Noso Radin (ph), and Judge Hasmana (ph) and the executive director, Amar Duak (ph).

I would like to thank very much all the factions and forces that have abided by the honor agreement that was signed before the elections. And I would like to especially thank the security forces that have actively contributed to maintaining law and order. And I would like to thank all those who work in the committee and its director general, Amar Duak (ph), for their devoted work and for the excellent work they did in preparing the preliminary results of the elections.

I would like also to thank all the representatives of various parties, local observers and international observers as well. And last but not least is to thank -- extend our special thanks to President Abu Mazen, who has supported the elections process in a unique way, confirming that democracy should continue in Palestine.

The elections process was scaled out in two phases between the 21st and the 23rd of January. There was -- balloting took place for the security forces, and on the 25th was the election for the rest of the Palestinian people.

With regard to the security forces, approximately 54,000 out of 59,000 members of the security forces have voted in those elections. Their voting was pre-prepared so that they would have enough time to work and devote their time on the day of the elections.

On the elections day on the 25th, the number of those who voted was 980,000. The overall number of those who voted is 1,073,000, bringing up the turnout to 77 -- approximately 77 percent.

All teams of the committee have worked intensively, and when I tell you the outcome of the results, I would like to note that this is the preliminary list or the preliminary results. And within one or two days, the final and comprehensive examination of all the calculations will be done. And as such, the figures that I will give now are accurate as of this moment, but there might be some slight change later on.

I would like first to speak about the lists. As you know, the (INAUDIBLE) is divided into two sections, lists of -- national lists of 66 members and the district lists with 66 members.

The number of the lists that ran for the elections is as follows: Change (ph), 30; Fatah, 27, the list of (INAUDIBLE), three; the alternative (INAUDIBLE), two; Independent Palestine, two; Third Way, two.

But as for the district, I would like to -- I would like to name only the names of those who won and their party affiliations. I will start now in Jericho. Or let's start with Jerusalem first.

Six Jerusalem seats, names: (INAUDIBLE) from Hamas; (INAUDIBLE), from Hamas List; (INAUDIBLE) from Hamas List; Ahmed Adwan (ph) from the Hamas List; Vivan Sabel Afata (ph) for the Christian Quarter; (INAUDIBLE), on behalf of the Christian Quarter for Fatah as well.

Jericho: Saeb Erekat from Fatah, one seat for Jericho.

Hebron: seats -- nine seats for Hebron; Naif Rajoub (ph), from Hamas List, Aziz Duak (ph), from Hamas List; Hamad Mutlik (ph), from Hamas; and Azar Abdel Aziz Ramadan (ph), from Hamas.

CLANCY: All right. You are listening there to the list go down. It's interesting that five out of the six seats in Jerusalem, where Hamas was prevented sometimes by force from campaigning there, five seats indeed out of six go to Hamas. One Christian taking the seat for Fatah.

And then you see Saeb Erekat winning the sole seat there in Jericho. That was a Fatah victory.

But going down that list, you hear over and over again that it is Hamas candidates who are winners.

Amre Moussa, the secretary-general of the Arab League, is still standing by there in Davos.

It is pretty clear that Hamas has swept this election, stunned a lot of people. The question, Amre Moussa, why? Was it corruption by the Palestinians or was it inaction and the lack of progress on the peace front? What was it?

MOUSSA: Or the desire to change. Or, at the same time, support, perhaps support for the policy called for by Hamas.

There are so many reasons, so many causes for that. But this is for the -- for us to analyze for some time.

The important thing is to talk about the expectations. What should we all do?

I believe that now the Palestinian people that have spoken and elected Hamas, Hamas will move from the opposition or from the cold (ph) to the seat of responsibility. I believe sitting in the seat of responsibility would make them follow a certain policy or a policy that would help the Palestinians achieve their goals.

First and foremost, their goals, the Palestinian goals, first and foremost among them is peace, is stability, is the establishment of their own state. So I believe that now we have to look forward for what kind of policy is going to be followed. I believe that they are going to follow a policy that would help the Palestinian goals and Palestinian national aspirations.

Now, I should also refer to the other side. That is Israel. They also have elections. And I hope that the outcome of their election -- their elections would also produce a government that would move towards peace with the Palestinians.

This would certainly help because it takes two to tango. It takes two to make peace.

CLANCY: All right. But how are Arab governments going to look upon this? There are already some indications that finances, financial help to the Palestinian Authority may have to dry up for at least for some nations who look upon Hamas and say we can't turn over cash to them.

What will Arab states do? Do you think they will increase the amount of money that they give to support this -- this government?

MOUSSA: Well, let me -- let me tell you something. President Abu Mazen is still the president of that authority. And most of the negotiations about assistance and about coordination in policies have been met with him.

So it is a kind of coalition of national unity. The president is from Fatah. The government seems to be a government from Hamas. But let me tell you, Jim, that I heard some of my colleagues talking about this, this afternoon. Let us ask ourselves, and I would ask you, would you like to isolate the Palestinians or engage the Palestinians, whatever the government -- their government would be?

Let us try to engage them. Engage the new government. Engage them in a process of peace, real peace.

And, of course, on the other side, to help in this practice and in this policy, because it is -- if we talk peace and the new government talks peace and Israel talks peace, then we are on the right track.

CLANCY: You know, some people look at this and they see a world that's shaken up by this development. They had known that Hamas was going to make a good showing, but not take an outright majority. At the same time, they say, maybe this is a good thing. It makes everybody take a fresh look at what's happening in the Middle East and how to fix it.

MOUSSA: Perhaps this would bring in a fresh policy or a fresh and new attitude, new considerations. But I believe -- again, I believe, that any Palestinian government, Hamas or Fatah or from any other political party or political view, would all put the Palestinian interests as number one. And number one in the Palestinian -- on the list of the Palestinian interests is to establish their own state and get peace.

So let us hope of the best and continue to deal with the new Palestinian government, whatever its color, in order to help them move towards peace.

(CROSSTALK)

CLANCY: Amre Moussa...

MOUSSA: And then...

CLANCY: ... at the heart of all of this, there has to be negotiations between Palestinians and Israelis. Hamas says, we are not negotiating with Israel. Israel says, we are not negotiating with Hamas. Then there's nothing going to happen?

MOUSSA: Yes, this is not Hamas that is negotiating. It's the government of Palestine, and those are the Palestinians that are negotiating.

Now, the talk about Hamas was about Hamas as an organization and the opposition. There was no negotiations with them.

But now it is not Hamas, it is not Fatah, it is not (INAUDIBLE). It is that -- it is the elected Palestinian government. If there are certain quarters, certain countries, certain policies that want the democracy and elections to produce a certain result to their liking, then I believe they are gravely mistaken. Now it is the government of Palestine, elected government of Palestine. Let us give this newly elected government, or the future government, give them the benefit of the encouragement to encourage them, to go towards negotiations. So this is not Hamas, or Fatah or whatever; this is a new government in Palestine.

CLANCY: All right. We're going to have to leave it there. Amre Moussa, secretary general of the Arab League. As always, Sir, our thanks to you for joining us there on a cool, cold night in Davos.

MOUSSA: Thank you, Jim.

CLANCY: All right, we're going to have to take a short break. We will be back with more of YOUR WORLD TODAY after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CLANCY: All right, we are looking here at -- this is the Palestinian Election Committee, I should say, that is meeting to announce that 76 of the 132 seats in the parliament have been won outright by Hamas. That gives it a clear majority. It does not need to form any coalitions, 43 votes for Fatah. That's almost a two-to- one margin. Thirteen seats are either still up in the air or have gone to some of the other parties. There were several other parties that were also running on moderate civil societies tickets, if you want to call them that.

Let's listen to some of the answers to questions that are coming in here just for a moment, see what questions are being asked by the Palestinian media.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): ... an outcome of everybody's work and contribution. And we in the Central Elections Committee, again, thank everybody who participated in this process and who participated in maintaining law and order in a unique and fabulous way. We did not extend the time, because there was no need for doing so. And when it was 7:00 in the evening, it was clear that there were no people waiting outside the ballot boxes, with the exception of one place only, where there were some people. And their I.D.s were collected and they had the chance to vote. And the whole matter was closed.

So therefore, there was no need for any extension.

Anymore questions?

QUESTION (on camera): (INAUDIBLE) of Al-Jazeera Television.

It wasn't clear whether the elections would be announced on the 27th, which is tomorrow. And then today, when exactly were you supposed to announce the results? And the second question is, you are still talking about 5 percent of the votes that have not been finalized. Is there a reason that they have not been finalized or counted up to this moment? And will the results be different from what you have already said?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We announced that we from it beginning, we said that we needed something like 24 hours to declare our preliminary results. And this is exactly what we abided to. And here we are announcing those results. We said we needed 24 hours. The five percent only is because the entries (ph) and those working with the elections committee did not finish all their work, and we looked at the figures and we thought that we could come out with a 95 percent results, considering them the preliminary results, and they would reflect also the reality by 95 percent.

And as we earlier said in 24 hours, we will give you the final results. We do not expect major changes. But of course, we don't know. This is the outcome of a 95-percent votes. And we will see what happens with the rest.

CLANCY: All right, we've been listening there as the head of the election commission announcing some of the results, saying yes, there are some areas where there's, what did he say, about five percent of the vote has yet to be counted. But he says everything is going like clockwork. This is a preliminary announcement, but it's still pretty definitive. He doesn't believe that it's going to change much overall in the hours to come -- Zain.

VERJEE: Jim, we want to speak to the U.N. envoy now to the Middle East, who is in Paris. Terje Roed-Larsen joins us now on the line.

Thank you so much for being with us.

How is the international community, the United Nations going to deal with a Hamas-led government.

TERJE ROED-LARSEN, U.N. SPECIAL ENVOY: Let me first say that I'm not currently the special envoy to the Middle East or the U.N. I'm here talking for the International Peace Academy in New York.

I think Hamas is now facing an existential dilemma which is very deep, because its very program since 1993 has been against the Oslo agreements and Oslo institutions. And at the heart of these are their legitimacy of the council. Now they have taken over these Oslo institutions, and they have to represent the agreement which has been fined with Israel.

And Hamas will have to resolve that deep existential dilemma before they can move forward. And I think we in the international community should kind of take a step back and watch and see how Hamas handles this deep existential dilemma.

VERJEE: So there's going to be no movement then far while, for some months, perhaps longer on the peace effort front. Israel is saying it's not going to be dealing with Hamas. Hamas is saying we are not putting down our weapons. We still don't believe that Israel has a right to exist in the United States. And the United States is also saying Hamas is a terrorist group; we're not going to deal with them. ROED-LARSEN: I think, as I said, this has produced a completely new situation, because now Hamas will have to choose. And we have to relate to them based on which way they choose to move. They can go left or they can go right. But there are only two ways of handling this. And then I think we should make our judgment in the international community when we see what position they take under these new circumstances.

VERJEE: And right now, what do you think should happen to the significant aid packages that the Palestinian Authority have received in the past, for example, from the European Union. The European Union also sees Hamas as a terrorist group. How do you think that should be handled or assessed, perhaps reassessed?

ROED-LARSEN: Yes, of course both the European Union and the United States, two of the biggest donors to the Palestinian Authority, have Hamas on their terrorism list, which would make it very difficult to -- for these two -- for the regional organizations and for the United States to continue engaging with the Palestinian Authority as donor communities, unless Hamas changes its stance. And this just exemplifies the dilemma I just mentioned. Hamas now has to make new choices, and we have to see where that goes. If they continue with terrorism and suicide bombing, it would lead to disaster for the Palestinian people, in economic terms and security terms and in political terms.

But so now there is a new opportunity for Hamas, and only time can show if they will move in the right direction in solving the existential dilemma they are facing in a constructive and positive manner and in the best interests of their own people.

VERJEE: Terje Roed-Larsen, do you think that, to some extent, the United States and Israel may bear some degree of responsibility for Hamas' victory? Some have suggested that, look, they didn't support Mahmoud Abbas' efforts enough. And had they done so, that may have bolstered his own position and have enabled him to deliver more economically to the Palestinians and their perceptions may have been different. Do you think there's any ground to that?

ROED-LARSEN: I think there are a long series of factors which have led to the massive victory which we've seen Hamas has reached in the Palestinian elections. I think the most important issue has not been how the donor countries have operated, how the partners in peace have operated, or even how Israel has operated, all adds to the list of causes

But the core of it is that this is, first and foremost, it protests votes, against the PLO and against Fatah. And here, I think, it is now at the core of the challenges for Palestinian society. And the future is that Fatah and the leadership of PLO, that they now reassesses all issues and that they reshape policies and opposition. And learning from failures of the past. This is the core of it.

VERJEE: Do you really think that Hamas will be prepared to moderate its stance? I know you've said that the real issue now is one of existentialism and how Hamas sees itself evolving. But what do you think? You've been close to this process for years. Will they be prepared to change?

ROED-LARSEN: I'm afraid I'm not able to answer the question and I think the reason is best exemplified today. And it shows how unpredictable the Middle East is. I think there were no observers and I think no politicians on the Palestinian scene who would have predicted this massive victory.

And I think it's very hard to predict how Hamas will handle this new situation. That's why I am saying, let's all now take a step back and watch how this scene develops, and then we should take our stances and develop policies and take action. I think it's far too early. And I don't think it's productive to try to predict how this will be handled.

VERJEE: Terje Roed-Larsen with a clear message: let's wait and see. He's the former U.N. envoy to the Middle East, now with the International Peace Academy in New York. We're going to take a short break.

We're standing by and in some moments we expect the Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas to make an address. We'll take a short break. CNN International will be back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VERJEE: Welcome back to YOUR WORLD TODAY on CNN International.

Hamas and its supporters are celebrating a huge victory at the polls that has put the militant group ahead of the Palestinian government. Hamas won a majority of seats in parliament in Wednesday's election. Just some moment's ago, the Palestinian election in Ramallah indicated that Hamas had 76 seats, compared to Fatah's 43, leaving Prime Minister Ahmed Qorei earlier in the day and his cabinet both to resign.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HANA NASER, CENTRAL ELECTION COMMISSION (through translator): In total, Hamas, number of seats for list, (INAUDIBLE). All together, 76. Fatah, 27 plus 16. The total is 43.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VERJEE: U.S. president George W. Bush called the Hamas victory in the Palestinian elections a wake-up call to the current leadership. He also said peace is never dead in the Middle East,but also added that the U.S. will not negotiate with Hamas as long as it advocates the destruction of Israel.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't see how you can be a partner in peace if you advocate the destruction of a country as part of your platform. And I know you can't be a partner in peace if you have a-- if your party has got an armed wing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CLANCY: Palestinian politics now entering what many see as unchartered hours. Legislator Hanan Ashrawi, a veteran of those waters, was reelected on a moderate platform. She says the Hamas victory is a dramatic turning point.

She spoke with us a little bit earlier from the West Bank city of Ramallah. We asked her what she thought were the reasons for this win for Hamas.

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HANAN ASHRAWI, PALESTINIAN LEGISLATOR: First of all, they won the protest vote, the anger vote, the resentment vote against Fatah and Fatah's own mismanagement and the Palestinian Authority's inaptitude and corruption.

But they also won the spare vote because the peace process, the voice of moderation, the voice of reason, was not getting any other reciprocal responses, whether from the Israelis or from the Americans or the international community. People did not see that there was any hope in terms of getting rid of the occupation and getting some sort of freedom.

They also got the vote of -- for people who wanted reform. They got the vote for people who are ideological as well. And in a sense, a combination of factors led to Hamas taking an overwhelming victory while Fatah has to come straight home to lose.

Now, this is going to be a very significant transformation for Palestine, not just politically, but also in terms of the whole collective ethos, the nature of the Palestinian society.

CLANCY: The nature of Palestinian society -- already we have heard Hamas saying that they are going to change everything for the Palestinian people. And obviously, I know that you've been active in women's rights and other things. How concerned are people in the Christian community, people concerned among the more secular Palestinians?

ASHRAWI: Yes, it's not just the Christians or the seculars. Palestinians as a whole have always been quite pluralistic, quite tolerant, quite open. And we want to maintain this society as an open society. We don't want to see a theocracy. And therefore, it is up to us to withstand the pressures of Hamas or Hamas' policies.

One of the spokespeople said that they're going to reformulate, to reshape Palestinian society. We have to tell them the government does not reshape society. It's the other way around. It's society that shapes the government.

But unfortunately, if they do want to start instituting their own theological index and legislating in accordance to these beliefs and absolute beliefs and (INAUDIBLE) systems, then this means that legally, we will see a transformation of the legislative system. And of course we will see the transformation of social norms, cultural norms and standards of behavior.

And these do not bode well for society as a whole. But right now I must say, Hamas is trying to be moderate, and at least in its political representation, trying to maybe respond to some of the fears and reservations expressed by Palestinians and by the international community.

However, we are (INAUDIBLE) extremely ideological. It's not going to be easy for you to shed your ideology in favor of afluvan (ph), whether internal or international. And I must say the success of Hamas has also been a factor of the rise of ideology and extremism and violence in Israel, as well, and the rise of unilateralism in Israeli politics that contributed to Hamas' success.

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CLANCY: All right. Hanan Ashrawi, very familiar with the peace process, with Hamas, and with the sentiment of Palestinians on the ground. She was talking to us there a little bit earlier from Ramallah.

VERJEE: We are going to have a lot more here on YOUR WORLD TODAY.

CLANCY: Coming up. When we come back, we're going to go up close and personal and examining life in Iraq from one reporter's point of view. This is a firsthand look that you don't want to miss.

We'll be back in just a moment.

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CLANCY: This week it has been two years since two of our colleagues were killed in Iraq.

VERJEE: They were part of the CNN's Baghdad crew and became victims of the violence they were trying to report.

CLANCY: Michael Holmes worked closely with both of them, and as did many people in the CNN bureau in Baghdad.

VERJEE: And he filed this special Reporter's Notebook with his thoughts on covering a country were deadly attacks have become commonplace.

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MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It is a sad fact of war coverage that casualties become numbers, compounding the tragedy, trivializing the individual. But that's what many victims here have become, numbers -- 45 killed in this bombing, 80 in that one. The maimed, their own lives shattered, even if not ended, are more numbers.

With so many deaths, it is impossible to cover the individual stories and lives of those who perished. Reporters at work, it's easy to become anesthetized. There's an element of deja vu here sometimes. Another day, another bomb, another attack, another death toll.

(on camera): Many of us, of course, try to stay detached from the actual violence. You'd go crazy if you got emotionally involved in every horror that you see. But there are always times when we in the media cannot bury it, and usually that's when the horror involves you or someone you know.

(voice-over): Many in the media have lost friends and colleagues here. These are photos of just some of them. This week, it is two years since we lost two of our own, translator Duraid Mohammed Isa, on the left, and one of our drivers, Yasser Katab, Two vibrant young men whose lives were cut short by insurgent bullets. We'd been returning from filming a story south of Baghdad when our two cars were attacked by two cars. None of us there will forget the image of gunmen standing up through the sunroofs firing AK-47s, wanting to kill not someone who had become a number, but us. Cameraman Scott McWhinnie was sitting next to me. He was shot in the head, but survived. Yasser and Duraid didn't make it.

(on camera): It changed me, changed all of us in the cars that day, of course, and many people who were not. These were people we worked with, lived with, and joked around with.

(voice-over): Yasser, young, idealistic, came to work for CNN despite his family's constant warning of the dangers. He used to bashfully teach us Arabic swear words on the way to stories.

Duraid, fun, funny, devoted father of two children the same ages as my own. We'd proudly compare photographs and laugh at their latest antics.

It's changed, too, how those of us who carry on work here in Iraq, now. Those of us here in the early days would certainly take precautions, but would think little about walking the streets in Baghdad and elsewhere, speaking with locals, getting a firsthand look at the story we're covering. In this case, sitting on Saddam's famous statue before it was removed.

(on camera): This is where we do our live shots from every day, reporting to you. However, most days this is as close as you can get to those in the city behind me.

(voice-over): It is difficult to get out and about. We do, but it is always with great caution. The kidnapping of journalist Jill Carroll is another reminder of the risks involved. Like most of us, she is here because it is a story that needs telling, despite the risks. Just a few photos of those who have died here.

It helps now and then to remind ourselves and those who watch our work that those casualty lists contain more than numbers, Iraqis or coalition forces; they are people.

Michael Holmes, CNN, Baghdad.

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CLANCY: We are standing by. President Mahmoud Abbas is going to be giving a live address. We'll bring it to you live.

For now, I'm Jim Clancy.

VERJEE: And I'm Zain Verjee. Stay with CNN.

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