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Your World Today
U.N Issues Scathing Report Calling for Closure of Guantanamo Detention Facility; U.S. Aid to Earthquake-Ravaged Pakistan Changes Minds
Aired February 16, 2006 - 12:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR, YOUR WORLD TODAY: Without further delay, a U.N. report calls for shutting down the U.S. prison at Guantanamo Bay.
JIM CLANCY, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR, YOUR WORLD TODAY: Graphic images. Growing anger. The Iraqi government condemns what happened at Abu Ghraib as new pictures are circulating again.
GORANI: Understanding the insurgency. Experts say that the U.S. must come to grips with it and the insurgency has become more confident and capable.
It's 1:00 in the afternoon in Guantanamo Bay, 8:00 p.m. in Baghdad, Iraq. I'm Hala Gorani.
CLANCY: Welcome to on our viewers in the U.S. and around the world. This is CNN International. And this is YOUR WORLD TODAY.
GORANI: The United Nations being held at the Guantanamo Bay facility in Cuba face treatment that amounts to, according to a report, to torture.
CLANCY: All that in a new U.N. report that was just published by the U.N. Commission on human rights. It calls for the immediate closure of Guantanamo Bay. It wants the U.S. government to either release those detainees or bring them trial.
GORANI: Washington says the report content and conclusions are without merit. Our European Political Editor Robin Oakley has more from London.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROBIN OAKLEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT, YOUR WORLD TODAY: Interrogation techniques that amount to torture. Excessive violence against prisoners, denial of legal rights, the findings of the U.N. report don't come as any surprise to human rights campaigners across the world. They were quick to echo for their call for Guantanamo Bay to be shut down and the detainees either put on trial or released.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For good of the America, as well as for the good of everything that we hold dear, Guantanamo should be shut down. It is an iconic symbol of hatred around the world. Where the world looks at us and says, you preach about democracy and the rule of law, yet you're behaving and ignoring us at Guantanamo . OAKLEY: Campaigners don't expect much change from the Pentagon. But the report will intensify international pressure on the U.S. Nothing makes European leader more uncomfortable with President Bush than the use of Guantanamo in their shared efforts to defeat terrorism. And that applies to good friends, too.
Before the Angelica Merckle (ph), the German chancellor, met Mr. Bush last month, she told an interviewer of the views she would repeat to him. And institution like Guantanamo cannot and should not exist in the longer term.
U.K. Prime Minister Tony Blair is President Bush's staunchest ally. But he pressed for years to win the release from Guantanamo of British detainees, who were not charged with anything on their return home. He, too, says it is time for Guantanamo to be shut down.
TONY BLAIR, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: Well, with respect to Guantanamo , I've made my view on that clear for a very long time. And why I think it is an anomaly that has to end.
OAKLEY: Not much sign, though, he'll be heeded, which could, say some, bring dire effects especially if a detainee dies in custody.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When a Muslim dies in Guantanamo bay, the Titanic will have hit the iceberg. If you think we have had problems with these terrible cartoons, if you think we've had problems with Abu Ghraib, it's going to pale in significance to a Muslim dying in Guantanamo Bay.
OAKLEY (on camera): With the Muslim world already enraged by the Danish cartoons, by new video of British troops being rioters in Iraq, by fresh disclosures about torture at Abu Ghraib, the U.N. report has cemented a pretty terrible week for the West in the battle for hearts and minds. Robin Oakley, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CLANCY: Let's go over some of the facts about this detention facility. Right now, some 500 detainees from 35 different countries held there. According to U.S. officials, who spoke to CNN, the largest number consistent of residents from Saudi Arabia, about 130, Afghanistan, about 110 and Yemen, about 100. Most of these detainees were arrested in Afghanistan or Pakistan in 2001 or 2002. They are accused of having links to Afghanistan ousted Taliban regime, or the Al Qaeda terror group. Although, only few have been charged. Around 85 percent of the detainees are between the age of 20 and 40 years.
GORANI: Now, we have much more on this story coming up. Some tough questions, in a few minutes we'll be speaking to Manfred Nowak, one of the U.N. Officials who compelled the report. We'll also U.S. officials complain about balance, we'll hear from the State Department legal adviser John Ballinger. And later, three British Muslims take their story to the big screen, after spending two years in the facility.
CLANCY: Hala, this new United Nations' report, also the topic of our "Inbox" today.
GORANI: We have been asking you, our viewers, should the United States close the prison at Guantanamo Bay?
CLANCY: What do you think? E-mail us, our address is ywt@cnn.com. Please keep your comments brief. Don't forget to include your name and where you are watching us.
GORANI: Now, let's turn our attention to Iraqi government and its condemnation of the latest graphic photograph and video released from Abu Ghraib prison in 2003. The images appeared in Iraqi newspapers on Thursday. Aneesh Raman is live in Baghdad with more on the reaction from ordinary Iraqis.
Aneesh?
ANEESH RAMAN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPODENT, YOUR WORL TODAY: Holly, good afternoon.
A muted response so far by Iraqis after the release of new graphic and disturbing photos and videos of abuses committed in 2003 at Abu Ghraib Prison. In part, there's a muted response by the government. You quoted Iraq's prime minister who condemned the abuses, he did so in a paper, written statement. Iraq's President Jalaal Talibani, at a press conference said that the actions of those who abused the prisoners was not the work of a civilized country.
But in terms of the papers this morning none of the government backed or party-backed papers really dealt with the story at all. The only papers that put it on the front page, that even showed some of the pictures, were the independent papers, And that's why the Iraqis we spoke to us this morning, while they still reserve criticism and disdain for the Americans after what took place at Abu Ghraib in 2003, today they called on their government to be stronger in rhetoric of condemnation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): The American forces, when there was story about the Judge Reia (ph), and three insurgents, were hit. The American ambassador was calling ministers of interior and defense about human rights. Why aren't human rights applied to Americans?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): It is not the first time, or the second, these things are happening and no reaction. So we want the Iraqi government to hold them accountable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RAMAN: Now, part of the reason, Hala, the government has perhaps been muted is that tensions are already high between Iraqis and the Western nations. In the southern city of Basra there have been perennial protests at both the Danish and British troops that are there. That is part of the reason, we think, that the government has largely been silent coming out too forcefully in condemning these latest photos -- Hala.
GORANI: What about the U.S. military in Iraq? What is its reaction to the release of these photos?
RAMAN: Well, it is interesting. Last night a U.S. military spokesman said that the timing and the release of these photos and videos was provocative. It was irresponsible. But the argument that we have heard often back from officials in the U.S. is that if you release these photos en masse. It will spark further fury, further violence and not just in the Muslim world but here in Iraq. Today a spokesman from the U.S. military said that hasn't happened.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAJ. GEN. RICK LYNCH, U.S. ARMY: We're not seeing any increase hostility as a result of those pictures being released. We're not seeing that. Remember, those pictures were pictures of criminal acts that took place many years ago. Rogue soldiers doing activity, that wasn't supported by their chain of command. And those rogue soldiers have been punished.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RAMAN: Now, what we have seen, Hala, is calls from Sunni politicians as well as Iraq's human rights ministry that the entire prison, Abu Ghraib, itself, should be transferred to fully Iraqi control -- Hala?
GORANI: Aneesh Raman, live from Baghdad -- Jim.
CLANCY: Australian television network SBS program "Dateline" aired the images, they are old images, but they haven't been seen before. Network officials say they were taken back in 2003.
This is of course is the same time, as all of the other photographs, or most of them that we've seen from Abu Ghraib, coming out. The executive producer of the program tried to explain why the network felt compelled to broadcast these images.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MIKE CAREY, EXECUTIVE PRODUCER, SBS TV: Some of the corpses we showed as far as I'm aware are new to the argument. They seem to be fairly serious cases of abuse. Possibly, you know, these people were killed during a riot in Abu Ghraib prison. As far as I understand it that riot hasn't been investigated. We spoke to the American Civil Liberties Union, who suggest that there needs to be greater investigation of what went on at Abu Ghraib and in that sense we felt a responsibility.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CLANCY: The network said it didn't air all of those photographs it had acquired because it deemed some of them just too graphic.
GORANI: European Union legislators have rejected call to limit media freedom in the region in the aftermath of the Prophet Mohammad cartoons controversy. They say current laws in Europe on offensive material is all that's needed. Protests generated by the cartoons continued in Pakistan. Thousands of thousands marched in Karachi calling on Pakistan to severe ties with European countries where the cartoons were published. The protest ended peacefully, in contrast to the violence recently seen in other Pakistani cities.
CLANCY: More on the controversy at Guantanamo Bay is just ahead.
GORANI: When we return, two perspective from the U.N. and from the U.S. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: Welcome back. You're with YOUR WORLD TODAY on CNN International.
More now on our top story: The U.N.'s highly critical report on the treatment of detainees at Guantanamo Bay detention center in Cuba. The report was compiled by five U.N. envoys who interviewed former prisoners, detainees, lawyers and families, and U.S. officials. It is the result of an 18-month investigation ordered be the U.N. Commission on Human Rights. For more on the report we now go Manfred Nowak, U.N. special reporter on torture. He is one of the envoys who compiled the report. And he joins us now live.
Mr. Nowak, thank you for being with us. Your report recommends closing Guantanamo Bay, why?
MANFRED NOWAK, U.N. SPECIAL ENVOY: Because, it's one of our firm conclusions that international human rights law fully applies to the situation of detainees in Guantanamo Bay. It means, also, that the persons who are held for three years or almost four years, are held there in violation of their to personal liberty under the international covenant on civil and political rights.
Now, the only conclusion that can be drawn from that is, that those persons have the right, either to be released or to come before an independent court. Which then assesses whether the charges are serious enough to convict them.
So, either they should be released or appear in independent court in the United States. Or in their countries or origin to be judged there, having a fair trial. So that means, there's no more further need to keep the Guantanamo Bay detention facilities.
GORANI: Critics of the report have come out immediately. They said you got only one side of the story. You haven't spoken to the nurses, to the doctors, to those guards who are at Guantanamo Bay. And you can't come with a credible conclusion to any report when you have only compiled the testimony from one side?
NOWAK: Yes. That's the responsibility of the United States of America, who has denied us access to the detainees at Guantanamo detention facilities. We have been asking for many years. We received an invitation to go to Guantanamo Bay. We accepted it. We fixed the 6th of December as the date. The U.S. government didn't give us the assurances our fact-finding would be in accordance with our terms of reference, which are the minimum standards of a no check fact finding. I can't go to a country and only speak to the prison officials, but being denied the possibility to talk to detainees. This is not an objective and fair means (AUDIO GAP) we unfortunately had to cancel the visit. But it is the responsibility of the U.S. government, not of us.
GORANI: But wouldn't it have been more productive and better to go anyway?
NOWAK: No. Definitely not. We're serious objective independent fact-finders. We would undermine the U.N. fact-finding capacities if we would actually accept an invitation that we are not accepting to any other state of the world.
I mean the U.S. government, itself, is really strong on this terms of reference in relation to other governments. They have urged the Chinese government to comply with these terms of reference. They want an exception for the United States. If we had granted, no more valid that other governments would ask for the some exceptions. We can't carry out independent fact-finding. This is a general rule of the United Nations. U.S. government is fully aware of it. There is no reason now that they use the argument that we haven't been in Guantanamo Bay against us. This is a very unfair argument.
GORANI: You mentioned China, another criticism thrown at the U.N. Human Rights Commission. And the report that come out, some member countries of this commission, don't have a very glowing human rights record, themselves. Some members of the committee that conducted the investigation that produced this report, come from countries as well, that don't always comply with human rights laws and regulations?
NOWAK: I don't know what you mean. We're not a committee. We're five independent experts coming from different countries, different continents, from different legal systems. We're highly qualified international experts on human rights. We carried out this joint investigation. We arrived at very, very clear, legal conclusions that should actually be complied with by the U.S. government.
It doesn't matter at all, whether the government where an independent expert comes from, violates human rights. This is not a serious allegation that -- against the independence of this report. I can tell you, for sure, that all of the five experts are fully independent in carrying out these studies. These investigations and these legal investigation.
GORANI: All right. Just putting the criticisms that have been issued out there today, to you, Manfred Nowak. Thank you so much for joining us. Jim?
CLANCY: We heard from Commissioner Nowak why they didn't go to Guantanamo. Why didn't U.S. let them? U.S. officials are complaining about the balance and all of this. This is what the State Department legal adviser told us. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN BELLINGER, U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT: We invited the rapportuers to come down to Guantanamo for a visit. They refused to come, the did not meet with any U.S. officials, either with Washington or in Guantanamo.
CLANCY: You invited them, but did you say, you can sit down in rooms alone and talk to these prisoners.
BELLINGER: We told them they could not do that, but that's because --
CLANCY: But then what would be the point of going? That's what the U.N.'s says. What's the point of going if the U.S. isn't going to let us talk to prisoners? They are the ones that have been in Guantanamo Bay, that have been there for years?
BELLINGER: Well, the ICRC is already there. They are the ones who are the appropriate people to be talking to detainees. We don't want to have a whole line of groups talking to the detainees. But let me say on the report, I think anybody would say that it would have been a more balanced report had rather than simply taking what the detainees and their lawyers said was going on, had they actually gotten briefings from U.S. Officials or talked to the guards, nurses or the doctors.
They have had no briefings on U.S. law, U.S. policies or the practices in Guantanamo. They have simply taken one side of the story. It's a really quite remarkable to see that they would take without any dose of skepticism thing that are being said by the detainees, and worst by their lawyers who are their advocates.
We know, for example, that Al Qaeda has told its members if in fact they are captured they ought to do two things. One, they ought to claim they were mistreated and two, suggest even that they go on hunger strikes. So the Al Qaeda members are simply following the instructions that they got.
CLANCY: John --
BELLINGER: So, it is quite remarkable that the U.N. rapportuers have accepted that at face value and not even bothered to go to Guantanamo Bay to make a more balanced report.
CLANCY: John, it seems you had a brilliant opportunity to invite the rapparture and let them talk to that. You and I both know, it's international law with the ICRC. They're not allowed to talk about anything in public. You know that. And to hold it up that the ICRC somehow, the Red Cross should be the one who gets to talk to them. This was going in this report. Who in the U.S. government, made the decision that the United Nations reportuer wouldn't be allowed to sit down with the prisoners. Who is the individual that made that call?
BELLINGER: We did invite them to -- CLANCY: Who made the call, Sir. Who made the call, sir, that they wouldn't be able to talk to the prisoners?
(CROSS TALK)
BELLIGNER: We invited them to Guantanamo Bay. They rejected our recommendation. I think anybody --
CLANCY: We have been through this. And I don't want to waste a lot of time here. I'm just asking you, who made the call?
BELLINGER: This was something that was discussed thoroughly. We agreed that they would be invited down to Guantanamo. I'm sure we probably could have worked something out.
CLANCY: Is it a secret? Is it a secret who made the call that they wouldn't allow the U.N. in the United Nations rep to talk to the prisoners? Is that a secret? Is somebody -- are you embarrassed by it
BELLINGER: No, not at all.
CLANCY: Then who did it?
BELLINGER: We think we made the right decision. We invited them to come down. They declined our invitation.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CLANCY: All right. Obviously, a lot of conflict over the report. The U.N. Is high and mighty, there's no way we could go down there and investigate. Clearly, they only got one side of the story. On the other hand, the United States, the officials there make a mistake? They have criticized the U.N. Human rights panel, noting its members include Libya, Zimbabwe and other countries with spotty human rights records. The opportunity was there to face up. We didn't get it.
GORANI: And we did ask Manfred Nowak about that. He assured those five members of the investigative panel were indeed independent. In any case, we got both sides of the argument.
CLANCY: Missed opportunity on both sides.
GORANI: In any case we got both sides of the argument there.
CLANCY: Sort of.
GORANI: Tough questions for both of them.
In any case, what we want now is your side.
CLANCY: That's right. What do you think about all of this? We're asking you, should the U.S. close the prison at Guantanamo Bay?
GORANI: E-mail us, ywt@cnn.com. Don't forget to include your name, where you're watching us from. And send us a short message. CLANCY: Competition in European is likely to heat up.
GORANI: European lawmakers take steps to remove some business barriers. Implications for dining out and many other things. We'll explore what it means, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Daryn Kagan in CNN Center in Atlanta. More of YOUR WORLD TODAY in just a few minutes. First let's check on stories making headlines here in the U.S.
About 90 minutes from now, the British man accused of murdering his wife and daughter, is due to appear in a Massachusetts court. Neal Entwistle returned to the U.S> last night after agreeing to extradition. Entwistle is expected to plead not guilty at today's arraignment. He returned to England the same weekend his wife and daughter were found shot to death in bed. He is charged now with their murders.
Two gunmen hold up at a Family Dollar store in Detroit have now surrendered. Police said the would-be robbers had barricaded themselves in the store for almost two hours this morning. A SWAT team and an armored car moved in shortly before they moved with their hands above their hands. There were no hostages inside.
Vice President Dick Chaney said he would never forget seeing his friend, Harry Whittington, falling to the ground after he accidentally shot him. Cheney talked about the shooting in an interview on another network yesterday. He said, quote, "I'm the guy who pulled the trigger that fired the round that hit Harry. You can talk about all the other conditions that existed at the time, but that's the bottom line." The vice president goes on to say, "It's not Harry's fault. You can't blame anybody else. I am the guy who pulled the trigger and shot my friend. And you can say that's a day I will never forget."
We're expected to learn more about Harry Whittington's condition next hour. Doctors will give an update from Corpus Christi, Texas. We'll carry that live in next hour.
Just about two hours ago, Senate plowed ahead toward renewal of the Patriot Act. It was a vote of 96 to 3, lawmakers rejecting the challenge from Democrat Russ Feingold. He wanted limits on the government's law enforcement powers which were expanded under the post 9/11 legislation. Supporters say the broader powers are essential to fight terrorism.
The nation's domestic spying program faces new scrutiny. The Justice Department has launched an internal investigation, at issue, the conduct of agency lawyers involved in the program, which authorizes the use of wiretaps without warrants. Later today the Senate Intelligence committee is expected to vote on whether to launch a congressional investigation of it's own.
A about 11,000 mobile homes, meant for temporary housing are still stuck 100s of miles away from the Gulf Coast. I mean, literally, they are stuck in the mud. According to one federal official, FEMA officials at the site argue that the homes in Hope, Arkansas, are fine. But there seems little hope of them being moved to the Gulf. Because federal regulations ban them from being placed in flood plain.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICHARD SKINNER, INSPECTOR GENERAL, DHS: Putting these homes in a flood plain, putting more families at risk again. Particularly a flood plain that's hurricane-prone. The last thing that Louisiana and Mississippi needs to see a bunch of FEMA homes floating down the streets on their side. Causing a debris problem as a result of any flooding or hurricanes that may occur.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KAGAN: Skinner also corrected media reports about the mobile homes. Never reported they would have been destroyed because they had deteriorated so much.
(WEATHER FORECAST)
KAGAN: New York will soon boast another symbol to go along with the Big Apple -- an official New York City condom. Yes, the health department there says the city distributes more than a million free condoms every month, and it needs its own brand. And in case you didn't know, this is National Condom Week. Oh, the important things we have for you.
All right, on that note. He is the last American male figure skater to take home Olympic gold. Brian Boitano talks skating and his Olympic experience. That's going to happen on LIVE FROM with Kyra Phillips beginning at 1:00 p.m. Eastern.
Meanwhile, YOUR WORLD TODAY continues after a quick break. I'm Daryn Kagan.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: Welcome back to YOUR WORLD TODAY on CNN International. I'm Hala Gorani.
CLANCY: I'm Jim Clancy, and these are stories that are making headlines around the world.
Tens of thousands of people demonstrating in Karachi, Pakistan, protesting the publication of those caricatures of the Muslim Prophet Muhammed. The crowd called for Pakistan to severe ties with European countries where the cartoons were published. This protest, it should be noted, ended peacefully.
GORANI: The U.N. Human Rights Commission is calling for the immediate closure of the U.S. detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. The call comes in a harshly critical new report. It says the U.S. should either bring the inmates to trial or release them at once. Washington says the report's contents and conclusions are without merit and are not based clearly on facts. CLANCY: Iraqi newspapers printing these latest images that have been brought out. They're actually old images recently released now of Abu Ghraib. They date from 2003. They were broadcast on an Australian television network. The office of the Iraqi prime minister condemning them, though, only in written statement, adding the people responsible have already been punished. The U.S. military says they have not seen any increased hostility of result of the latest disclosures.
GORANI: The U.S. military says it has confirmed reports of a small Iraqi death squad that is working within Iraq's interior ministry. Twenty-two police officers were detained by U.S. forces last month, after admitting they were about to kill a Sunni Arab. U.S. commanders say just four of those men were part of the death squad. They're now being held at the Abu Ghraib Prison, pending full U.S. and Iraqi investigations. For months, Sunni Arabs have accused the interior ministry of sending out Shiite militias to target them.
CLANCY: A new report on the Iraqi insurgency has one main theme for the U.S. military: know your enemy. It might seem an obvious point, but the report's author say the U.S. has been more attack than it has been about analysis in Iraq.
Joining us from Washington now, Robert Malley of the International Crisis Group, which came out with this report.
Robert, put it into perspective, how much research went into this? What were you looking for, and what were you surprised to find?
ROBERTY MALLEY, INTERNATIONAL CRISIS GROUP: Well, we were trying to look at everything the insurgents had been saying, on their Web sites, on their Internet chats, on their leaflets, on their PDF files which are on their Web sites, to try to see exactly what they're saying, not only to others, but to themselves.
Because this is the way that one insurgent group communicates with its adherents or that one insurgent group communicates with another. Because, frankly, in Iraq, there are not many other ways for insurgents to convey their messages or to give their orders or to give their guidance. So there really is a treasure trove of material here about what it is they're saying to themselves, what they're saying to their followers, what they're saying to their enemies.
CLANCY: You know -- and maybe the best way to do this is just quickly go down a list of what I would consider to be misperceptions about this. The belief that there's -- these are all just scattered small groups, cells working, you know, hit and run attacks. What is this insurgency in reality?
MALLEY: That's what the reality was at the outset. Small groups, scattered, disorganized. You know, all they had were leaflets and they had these operations that were claim -- responsibility was claimed by more than one group.
Over time, we're seeing large groups emerge, four major ones, and then others. Some mergers of group, some of that sort of merge with the principle ones. Sophisticated communications. Much more streamlined organizations. And what we see today is if an attack takes place, one organization, one only, claims responsibility, almost immediately after it takes place. So we are really are seeing sort of the groups become more consolidated, larger and more sophisticated.
CLANCY: Now, they are using, you know, videos, slick magazines. They're really trying to get out their message that -- for two things. It's a rather simple message, isn't it?
MALLEY: Well, the message is that the enemy is illegitimate, that the U.S. and its Iraqi allies are resorting to illegitimate -- dirty war of their own, a sectarian war of their own. And secondly, that the insurgency has legitimacy on its side, that its fighting for the right cause, to free Iraq of the foreign invaders and to get rid of everything that the foreign invader has brought with it.
CLANCY: You know, over the years, people have talked about, well, Saddam Hussein was captured. Will this break the back of the movement, the insurgency? So and so was captured. We got a high- level guy. What effect is it really having?
MALLEY: Listen, every time -- all -- every time we thought we were turning the corner, whether it was, as you say, capturing Saddam, killing his sons, killing leaders of the insurgency. None of that has appeared to have -- to make a dent in the capacity of the insurgency to replenish itself and to conduct operations.
And one of the things that comes through when you look at the Internet sites is that they do have other means of making up their relative military vulnerability. And that's through communications, it's by recruiting people through their Web site. It's by continually drumming up a message that legitimacy is on their side and appealing to their own constituency, which has became, eseentially, a Sunni Arab constituency in Iraq.
CLANCY: Now, they already believe that they're going to be victorious. They know at some point the U.S. is going to pull out. And for them, that's enough, and they will be able to claim they've succeeded.
MALLEY: Well, they think -- again, one of the evolutions, striking evolution over the last year, year and half -- initially they thought this is an open-ended jihad, the religious struggle against an enemy that's going to stay for the long haul. But they would continue the fight for a long time, and they wouldn't give up.
Now we're seeing that they believe victory is at hand, that the time that the U.S. is going to leave is within reach, and that immediately, they're after the Iraqi institutions and security forces -- which are wholly dependent on the U.S. -- are going to collapse.
They now paint this picture as one in which victory is within grasp, which means they're going to have to grapple with other questions. What do they do with the victory that they think is...
CLANCY: OK. At the same time, when I read all the footnotes and I went through your reports, and -- we talked about this a little bit earlier -- you put it together. They also realized that they've lost forever. Saddam Hussein isn't coming back. They realize that society is going to be changed, the Sunnis are no longer going to be in charge of Iraqi exclusively, as they were under Saddam Hussein.
And I would read it and I would say they even seem to acknowledge that, you know, there's a process in place, democracy, that a lot of people are supporting, and they're listening.
MALLEY: Well, let me start with your first point. A lot of the insurgents are not followers of Saddam Hussein. And while Saddam Hussein was at-large, it was much more difficult for the insurgency, because some of the people were more loyal to Saddam Hussein. Others weren't. And the insurgents that Saddam Hussein had a pretty bad reputation with most captured.
Once he was captured they were, in way, unburdened of that. And you see that they don't refer to Saddam Hussein anymore. None of the major groups do. And in fact, it was liberating for them, ironically, the fact that he was taken into custody. Now they are sensitive to what they sense are shifts in public mood.
For example, public desire to participate in elections. Whether that means that they're prepared to live with democracy, live with a rule that would not (INAUDIBLE) the Arab world. That's a different matter. They don't really get into those political questions, largely because they know they will be quite decisive.
CLANCY: All right. We've got to leave it there. Robert Malley, thank you and the International Crisis Group for really taking a look at something important.
MALLEY: Thank you.
CLANCY: A sweeping survey of the insurgency in their own words. Thank you.
MALLEY: You're welcome.
GORANI: All right, now more on that accidental shooting, that shooting accident there involving the vice president, Dick Cheney.
Let's go live to Corpus Christi, Texas. Ed Lavandera is standing by with I believe the sheriff's report on the incident.
Ed, what does it say?
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi.
Well, this report has just been released in the last few minutes. It is a five-page report, and we're still going through much of it.
But there are a couple of highlights probably worth passing along at this point. And one the things that is most interesting just right off the bat, and one of the things we're still trying to ask a few more questions about as we speak, is this idea that the investigating officer of this shooting, and from what we've been able to gather in the initial reading of it, did not appear on the Armstrong ranch until 14 hours after the incident had occurred.
In reading through the report, we understand that there was -- a sheriff's captain, a constable in the area that had made phone calls. And according to them, they were basing this notion that it was an accidental shooting strictly on phone calls apparently that they had made with people on the ranch.
We're still trying to gather whether or any one from the sheriff's office, or from the constable's office, or anyone who might be investigating this, that made it on to the ranch the night of the shooting. They did say that 10 minutes after the shooting happened, the sheriff in Kennedy County says that he was contacted officially by the Secret Service. About 10 minutes after he received the initial phone call that there had been a shooting on the Armstrong ranch.
The sheriff's deputy, the chief deputy, who is also leading up the investigation, writes in his report, that he also was trying to -- wasn't until, I believe, on -- what day was it, I think Monday or so, that he interviewed Mr. Whittington here in the hospital at Corpus Christi. And he asked Mr. Whittington if he could record the conversation. Mr. Whittington asked that the conversation not be recorded, because his voice was, quote, "raspy."
He also expressed a lot of concern that he was afraid that the publicity around this incident could give hunting a bad image in Texas. That was one of things that he was concerned about. It doesn't appear to have been a very long interview with Mr. Whittington, who reiterated over and over again in that conversation that it was just an accident, and that is also what they heard over and over from the eight people who were in this hunting party, that they said it was all an accident.
The sheriff's deputy also explains that he had a conversation with the vice president on Sunday morning at a table inside the Armstrong home. And that conversation, included the recounting of events that happened the night before. Mr. Whittington and Mr. Cheney also had told the deputy, that alcohol wasn't involved.
They say that there had been two coveys of quails that they were going after, that Mr. Whittington had just killed two birds with one shot. And he had gone off to go track down those birds to collect them, and that's why they had become separated from Mr. Cheney group. And he was coming back to rejoin the group, and apparently the sun was setting. Might have caused some of the problems.
But we're still going through that. What I mentioned at the top is some of the information we're still trying to clear up at this moment. We'll continue to do so throughout the day.
Back to you.
GORANI: All right, we'll get back to you, once you've had a chance to read through the report in its entirety.
Thanks very much, Ed Lavandera, Live in Corpus Christi, Texas.
We'll be right back after a short break.
CLANCY: Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CLANCY: Returning now to our top story, the mounting calls for the U.S. to shutdown the prison at Guantanamo Bay.
GORANI: Members of the U.N. Human Rights Commission are not only the ones putting pressure on the U.S. government.
Chris Burns has the story of three British Muslims who spent two years in the facility itself, and now they're taking their stories to the big screen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On his knees, facing this way. Don't let him look. Don't let him look.
CHRIS BURNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's a story told by three youths from Tipton, England.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are now the property of the U.S. Marine Corps! This is your final destination.
BURNS: Ruhel (ph), Shafiq and Asiq (ph), played by three young actors, wind up in the middle of the U.S.-led war on terror in the docudrama "The Road to Guantanamo." After travelling to Pakistan for a wedding in September 2001, they go on to Afghanistan, around the same time U.S. airstrikes begin. They lose their friend Runil (ph) in the chaos as the Taliban regime falls. They're captured. They say they are beaten and interrogated by U.S. and British agents before they are sent to the Guantanamo Bay detention center for two years, without charges.
SHAFIQ, ACTOR: If you are Arab, that was it, you were a member of al Qaeda no matter what. The stories that we used to hear to the detainees, what used to happen to them in interrogation, and seeing people get beaten as well in front of us.
BURNS: Despite international criticism, America insists the conditions inside Camp X-Ray are humane.
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECY. OF DEFENSE: We are consistent with the Geneva Convention, for the most part.
BURNS: The film's British director sought to lift the veil on a place that remained shrouded in secrecy.
MICHAEL WINTERBOTTOM, DIRECTOR: If I said to you five years ago, there'd be an American prison in Cuba where people were being held without trial, you'd have thought I was crazy. BURNS: After the Tipton Three were released in March 2004, they told their story to Winterbottom and his codirector Mat Whitecross, who compiled more than 600 pages of accounts, living with him for a month.
MAT WHITECROSS, CODIRECTOR: They're very, very dense with very normal people. The youths did have a mission in going to Afghanistan, though they insist it was humanitarian.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We each wanted to see what was going on and how were the brothers.
BURNS: And, they say, the detainees they knew at Guantanamo weren't the terrorists the U.S. government portrayed them to be. The West, not just the United States, has been struggling lately to repair its image in the Muslim world. The timing of this film could heighten tensions.
But director Michael Winterbottom says the film has only one aim, to shut down Guantanamo.
Chris Burns, CNN, at the Berlin Film Festival.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: OK, it's time now to check the inbox.
CLANCY: That's right. We've been asking this: Should the U.S. close the prison at Guantanamo Bay? Here's what you had to say.
GORANI: Steve writes from Virginia, "I think this is one of the greatest embarrassments that the United States has ever created. The longer that it goes on, the more our reputation as a country will be tarnished."
CLANCY: And we had one viewer write in to say this: "My sense is that the prison should remain open and operational. Stories surrounding Guantanamo have rarely been proven to be valid after more careful study and review."
GORANI: Kris in Belgium writes, "It would be wise for the U.S. to close Guantanamo. I cannot believe that a civilized country would even dream of operating in a way like the U.S. government has been doing right now."
CLANCY: A lot of questions. A lot of people said yes, close it down, and a lot of people just as strongly said who's the U.N. to say in all of this that the U.S. has done something wrong. We got to go to a break. We'll be right back after this.
GORANI: Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CLANCY: Well, the effects from last year's devastating earthquake in northern Pakistan are still being felt today. With a massive humanitarian and reconstruction effort still underway, the 7.6 magnitude tremor killed more than 80,000 people last October. It left three million homeless. At least 20,000 children died, many of them when their schools collapsed on top of them.
The United Nations report says children under five who survived the earthquake are, of course, at a higher risk than adults of dying. The U.N. also says tent camps sheltering the earthquake victims may be needed for another six months.
GORANI: The United States Army has said an emotional good-bye to its last surgical field hospital. It happened in Pakistan. It's been treating victims of the earthquake in the region.
Now, for the past four months, the 212th MASH unit -- MASH, of course, made famous by the TV series in the 70s -- mobile army surgical hospital. It's been stationed in a mountain valley in northern Pakistan for the last few months. The U.S. military decided to donate the last MASH unit, worth more than $4 million, to the Pakistani army.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REAR ADM. MICHAEL LE FEVER, U.S. NAVY COMMANDER: There has been so much wonderful things done by the U.S. and the international agency in supporting the earthquake relief efforts. Before this, there was a survey was done where the image of the U.S. and westerners went from 23 percent approval to 46 approval rating, all related to the earthquake relief effort.
And so it's kind of interesting now with this, and it seems to be the press coverage that seems to highlight the drama of the demonstrations and protests, and it is a shame that they're not highlighting the wonderful accomplishments of all of the international relief efforts and the U.S. relief aid, as well as USAID, in supporting not only the relief efforts, but the rebuilding and reconstruction of this wonderful country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, Rear Admiral Le Fever also spoke about how this humanitarian effort is changing the way the average Pakistani views the United States.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LE FEVER: I think humanitarian efforts is one of the keys in the global war on terrorism. I think it has a tremendous impact on people's image of what the United States is all about.
When we first came here, we were receiving some of the press reports that we just thought your helicopters were dropping bombs. Now we see the true side of the United States, providing relief and help in this devastating earthquake. And the people were very refreshed by that.
We've influence a general of people that recognize the United States as providing relief in a time of devastation and destruction in their lives. That went along with not only with the MASH, but the schools we built, the areas we cleared, and some of the casualties we brought back to be able to live for another day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, the United States has pledged more than half a billion dollars to Pakistan for humanitarian and reconstruction assistance.
CLANCY: All right. That has to be our report for now. For our viewers in the United States, "LIVE FROM" CNN is coming up next.
GORANI: And for the rest of you, a live update on the Winter Olympics, as well as the day's top stories. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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