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Your World Today

Insurgents Storm Police Building, Free Prisoners in Iraq; Israel Arrests Suspects After Highway Chase; U.K. Terror Trial; Interview with NATO Secretary-General

Aired March 21, 2006 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JIM CLANCY, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Clogged traffic and a sigh of relief. Police in Israel chase down a van carrying explosives they say were intended for use in an attack in Jerusalem.
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Smoldering rubble, the aftermath of a bold raid and a prison break in a Sunni stronghold in Iraq.

CLANCY: And the U.S. president making his case. Again. We're going to take a closer look at what he's saying on Iraq. His opposition, Democrats, grow bolder and more vehement in their criticism.

It is 8:00 p.m. in Baghdad, 7:00 in the evening in Jerusalem right now.

I'm Jim Clancy.

VERJEE: And I'm Zain Verjee.

A warm welcome to our viewers throughout the world.

This is CNN International and this is YOUR WORLD TODAY.

We begin our report with that daring insurgent attack in broad daylight that sparked explosions, clashes and death. About 100 insurgents stormed a police station just north of Baghdad. At least 18 officers were killed. About two dozen detainees or more were freed.

Senior International Correspondent Nic Robertson is in Baghdad right now. He has some more on all of this.

Nic, another shocker.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Indeed. And this was a heavily-fortified police headquarters compound. This is not a small police outpost somewhere.

When you look at the pictures taken in the aftermath of this attack, you can see that there are strong concrete barriers, that there's a large base inside, a lot of buildings inside. That's where the detention facility for the detainees was.

We understand from the police that about -- that about 100 insurgents and almost a dozen vehicles mounted this raid, firing rocket-propelled grenades, firing heavy machine guns, coordinated complex attack on this -- on this large police base. Managing to penetrate that out-of-barrier security, get inside and release perhaps as many as 13 detainees.

Among those detainees are suspected insurgents in the gun battle, we're told. Eighteen policemen were killed, seven were wounded.

The extent of this battle went on so long that both the Iraqi army and the U.S. military called in. U.S. armored personnel carriers were on the scene, a helicopter was flying overhead. And as a gun battle continued, at least one U.S. soldier, we are told, was killed in that complex attack. But at the end of the day, a large police facility broken into by a large number of insurgents, freeing all those detainees inside -- Jim.

CLANCY: All right. Well, the obvious question comes up, Nic, who were the detainees, somebody high level or somebody in a tribal group that they got their people to come to their assistance? It raises a lot of questions. Any answers?

ROBERTSON: There aren't any answers. But when you look at a -- when you look at such a large number of attackers, obviously the tribal attack is one that you would have to consider in this situation, if there was a significant tribal figure in detention that the tribe felt was unjustly being held.

It would not be unreasonable to suspect that they could mount an assault of 100 or so men. It's unusual to see a normal insurgent group operated in such large numbers.

When we talked to the police, they told us here that they do monitor such attacks on police stations, obviously. They said back in 2004, such attacks weren't uncommon. Last year, they say that they didn't have any big attacks like this, where -- where detainees were freed.

And they say when they look at this attack this year right now in Muqtadiyah (ph), it gives them great cause for concern, Jim. But they still don't know exactly what the rationale behind the attack was. Was it to kill police or was it to spring somebody who was very important in that detention center there -- Jim.

CLANCY: CNN Senior International Correspondent Nic Robertson there reporting to us live from Baghdad.

Nic, as always, thanks.

VERJEE: U.S. President George W. Bush says Iraqi leaders recognize the importance of forming a unity government. Mr. Bush says the U.S. government will encourage them to put aside their differences, reach across sectarian lines to form that government. He also explained why he opposes the view that there's a civil war in Iraq already.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: ... that there's sectarian violence. But the way I look at the situation is that the Iraqis took a look and decided not to go to several war.

A couple of indicators are that the army didn't bust up into sectarian divisions. The army stayed united. And as General Casey pointed out, they did a -- you know, arguably a good job in helping to make sure the country stayed united.

Secondly, I was pleased to see the religious leaders stand up. Ayatollah Sistani, for example, was very clear in his denunciation of violence and the need for the country to remain united. The political leaders who represent different factions of the Iraqi society have committed themselves to moving forward on a unity government.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VERJEE: The U.S. president made those comments during a news conference just a short while ago. It's part of the Bush administration's new effort to regain support for the war in Iraq.

We are going to bring you more on Mr. Bush's comments a little bit later. And also, Vice President Dick Cheney is scheduled to make a speech on Iraq in less than 30 minutes from now, and we are going to bring some of that to you live.

CLANCY: All right. We are going to check out now the "Question of the Day," because we have one.

VERJEE: We want you to weigh in on out. Here is what we are asking you: Are Iraqis better off now than they were before the U.S. invaded? E-mail us, YWT@CNN.com.

CLANCY: And try to keep your answers brief, and do tell us where you are e-mailing us from so we can include that as we read some of these out on the air.

VERJEE: In Israel, a high-speed chase on the main highway between Tel Aviv and Jerusalem ended in the arrest of 10 Palestinians. Police say explosives were found on board the van, and the whole area is now on high alert.

Guy Raz has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GUY RAZ, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Ten would-be bombers, say Israeli intelligence officials, caught along Israel's main highway between Jerusalem and Tel Aviv. Inside their van, police say a powerful suicide bomb vest intended for a population center just off that highway.

The men were caught just hours after intelligence agents received what they called credible warnings that a suicide bomber infiltrated Israel from the West Bank. Police declared a nationwide terror warning, setting up roadblocks across the country and beefing up the security presence in Jerusalem.

It comes a week before Israelis vote for a new government. A rash of suicide bombings before the 1996 election swayed the outcome and led to a narrow victory for hard-liner Benjamin Netanyanu.

This time around, Israeli police are being extra vigilant.

(on camera): High security alerts are usually triggered by intelligence gathered inside the West Bank. It's widely thought Israel's internal security service has managed to infiltrate many of the potentially violent Palestinian militant groups.

(voice over): Meanwhile, this cargo crossing connecting Israel and Gaza is reopened after a 52-day closure. Palestinian officials had warned of impending food shortages in Gaza unless the crossing opened. Israel kept Carni (ph) terminal closed, citing security concerns. But a weekend compromise brokered by the United States persuaded Israel to relent. Carni (ph) had been the scene of a bombing back in January 2005, and Israeli officials warn they may close it down again if they receive any further security warnings.

Guy Raz, CNN, Jerusalem.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CLANCY: There is nothing even remotely resembling a peace process on the horizon in the Middle East as Israeli voters think about casting their ballots. That will be next week, about a week from now, in the March 28 parliamentary election.

Five million people are eligible to vote. They'll be filling up 120 seats in the Knesset. The real rivalry may be between whose unilateral plan for disengagement with the Palestinians goes forward.

The seats to be assigned in proportion to each party's percentage of the total vote. Opinion polls have put the recently centrist Kadima party well ahead of Labor and the right wing Likud. But polls do indicate 20 percent of the voters in Israel undecided. That leaves some room for some minor parties to try to pick up a little bit of support and possibly find their way into some kind of coalition government.

VERJEE: In Britain, the trial is under way of seven men accused of plotting a major terror campaign. They were arrested following a series of police raids in southeastern England back in 2004.

Paula Newton joins us now with a bit more on that.

Paula, what's the prosecution been arguing over at the Old Bailey?

PAULA NEWTON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we just went through opening statements, and it's a very, very hefty document, 84 pages in all. And we've just gotten through about a quarter of it. But it really is starting to lay out the details of this case. What I can tell you is seven people who were arrested in that raid, an accomplice in the United States who is now cooperating with authorities and an accomplice in Canada, this is what the prosecution alleges. What the prosecution has painted a picture of here is really an al Qaeda-inspired group that had decided that while they were doing explosive training in Pakistan, that there was no reason that they shouldn't carry out what they call their jihad or their holy war in Britain.

And I'm quoting now from the prosecution document that says -- quoting them -- that "The U.K. was unscathed and that it needed to be hit because of its support for the United States and the campaign against terror."

The kinds of targets they were looking at, Zain, were train stations, nightclubs. It was clear from the surveillance that police were doing is that these people wanted maximum impact.

Right now, this trial is expected to carry on for more than six months. It's very complicated, Zain. And beyond that, there are a lot of restrictions in terms of what we can and can't tell you.

VERJEE: Paula Newton reporting for us in London.

Thanks, Paula -- Jim.

CLANCY: Well, conservatives in France are maneuvering to ease a deepening political crisis over the country's new jobs law. They are facing thousands of students marching through Paris. The latest marches here on Tuesday.

There's been more than a week of these kinds of demonstrations. Pressure is coming on France's prime minister to scrap a new law that makes it easier for employers both to hire and then to fire people if they are under the age of 26.

CLANCY: Still ahead, the president makes his case.

CLANCY: But many Americans appear to be unconvinced.

Up next, what George W. Bush said in a news conference about the Iraq war and how opposition Democrats are replying.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VERJEE: Welcome back to YOUR WORLD TODAY on CNN International.

During a news conference just a short while ago, U.S. President George W. Bush continued to press the point that there's progress being made in Iraq and that if he didn't believe the mission would succeed, the U.S. wouldn't even be there.

Elaine Quijano joins us now from the White House with a bit more.

Elaine, this news conference being held amid falling approval ratings for the president. What else did he say?

ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's exactly right. With the Iraq war now entering its fourth year, Zain, President Bush is taking his case, trying to do that, straight to the American people.

He held his 24th solo news conference of his presidency this morning, and again, the argument is that the United States will continue to stay the course in Iraq. The headline, though, really had to do with how long U.S. forces might remain in Iraq.

The president was asked if there was a time or there would be a time when no U.S. troops would be in Iraq. And here is how President Bush responded.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Will there come a day -- and I'm not asking you when, not asking for a timetable -- will there come a day when there will be no more American forces in Iraq?

BUSH: That, of course, is an objective, and that will be decided by future presidents and future governments of Iraq.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So it won't happen on your watch?

BUSH: You mean a complete withdrawal? That's a timetable. I can only tell you that I will make decisions on force levels based upon what the commanders on the ground say.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUIJANO: So the president suggesting that continued U.S. military involvement might go on throughout his presidency. The issue, of course, of U.S. forces and how long they will remain in Iraq has become a central question, a major part of the debate here in the United States.

As you mentioned, Zain, the president's approval ratings have been low and weighed down by the Iraq war. What we have seen from this president now, a continued push, a renewed effort, if you will, to try to turn around some of the public opinion.

The president yesterday made a speech in Cleveland, Ohio, again pressing his case. Over the weekend, in fact, he made a brief statement noting the three-year anniversary of the Iraq war but not using the word "war." Calling it the third anniversary of the liberation of Iraq.

So this is a White House clearly trying to ask the American people for patience, to appeal to them for patience, and at the same time, defend its strategy in Iraq -- Zain.

VERJEE: And the president appealing and even blaming the media in this case, this day, in the press conference, for focusing on the bombings in Iraq and not enough on what he described as the progress being made.

QUIJANO: Well, and what the president said about that, because he was, in fact, asked to respond to some of the recent reports of violence, is that he understands that certainly, that is newsworthy, but at the same time, that is something the enemy knows is newsworthy, as well, and the enemy understands will become part of the debate. This is why this White House and this president feel it is very important to continue, no matter what those images out of Iraq continue to be, to continue pressing the message, if you will, that it is about more than what Americans are seeing on their television screens and reading about in the newspapers. That is why we saw the president yesterday go into very specific detail, using one example of the city of Tal Afar, talking about the progress he says that has been there in releasing that city from the grip of insurgents.

So look for the president again to continue with that theme, continue with that message. In their words, they want to try to broaden the lens and give a wider view of Iraq.

VERJEE: Reporting to us from the White House, Elaine Quijano.

Thanks, Elaine -- Jim.

CLANCY: Well, amid all the talk about Iraq, obviously this is an election year in the United States. Very important not for the president -- he's not up for reelection, for our viewers around the world -- but it's a congressional election. And a lot of Republicans feel the president and the policy on Iraq is pulling them down at the polls.

As he's making his case here, he is hoping to help that. But the Democrats, his opposition, are doing a lot of talking, as well. They are feelings emboldened and outspoken.

Candy Crowley takes a closer look at this mood.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SR. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Ohio has lost more than a hundred of its own in Iraq, an average of three funerals every month for three years.

In late 2002, Representative Sherrod Brown voted no on the Iraq resolution, opposed to the war when the country was not. That was then. This is now.

REP. SHERROD BROWN (D), OHIO: I see, from every indication, two out of three Ohio residents saying this war has been badly managed by the civilians in the White House and the Pentagon, valiantly fought by soldiers and Marines, but badly managed.

CROWLEY: This year, Brown is running for Senate in Ohio, for a state now occupied by a Republican in a state that has twice gone Bush.

BROWN: I think what's clear is that Republican leaders in this state all found excuses not to show up to see President Bush. That tells me that they don't buy what President Bush is saying about Iraq.

CROWLEY: Brown is part of a recurring Democratic vision, winning enough seats in elections this November to take control of the House and Senate.

REP. JOHN MURTHA (D), PENNSYLVANIA: I think you will see a substantial change in the government. I think -- this -- no mistake about it, this is President Bush's war. This election will be all about the war.

UNIDENTIFIED GROUP: Rumsfeld has got to go!

CROWLEY: The change of fortunes is both palpable and provable.

In the weeks before the war started, 53 percent of Americans thought Republicans would do a better job dealing with Iraq. Twenty- nine percent said Democrats. Now Americans say Democrats would do a better job, a 19-point gain for Democrats since the war began.

HOWARD DEAN, DNC CHAIRMAN: The president's chief adviser, Karl Rove, says he's going to run on security. Well, to quote a famous American, bring it on.

CROWLEY: For the first time since 9/11, Democrats are ready to take on the president's strong suit. As members set off for home recently, the office of Democratic Leader Harry Reid issued a seven- page call to arms, urging Democrats to put themselves with veterans or military settings to take on the president. "It is more important than ever," it said, "for us to focus on security at home and abroad."

It is a new course for Democrats who originally planned to frame this election on what they called the culture of corruption. But there are new buzzwords now.

SEN. JOSEPH BIDEN (D), DELAWARE: What the American people are holding this administration accountable for is their dangerous incompetence.

CROWLEY: Dangerous incompetence, absolute incompetence. It is showing up in press releases and interviews.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This war has been absolutely incompetently run.

CROWLEY: All the leading political indicators tell Democrats they're on the right track, that a difficult war colors all other issues in their favor. But a war gone sour can turn around. And eight months is several lifetimes in an election year.

Candy Crowley, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VERJEE: Still to come here on YOUR WORLD TODAY, we're going to check the markets, as well as some other business news.

CLANCY: There's a possible deal for General Motors workers, and that's sending shares up at the beleaguered auto manufacturer.

We will have more straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Daryn Kagan at CNN Center in Atlanta. More of YOUR WORLD TODAY in just a few minutes.

First, though, let's check on stories making headlines here in the U.S.

First, in New Orleans, the mayor Ray Nagin's plan to rebuild the city is generating controversy. It would allow residents to build anywhere, but at their own risk. He is urging residents to consider a buyout program.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR RAY NAGIN (D), NEW ORLEANS: It's important that you as citizens have the option of rebuilding on your own or taking advantage of the buyout options in the failed levee homeowner recovery program I pioneered. As you may recall, this program offers grants of up to $150,000. Once these areas become safer, if you choose to take that option, you will have first option to move back into your neighborhoods.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: The mayor's report also calls for revamping schools and consolidating city offices. Development projects are also included, but federal funds haven't been allocated for many of those goals.

Concerns about animal rescues after Hurricane Katrina may be stalling a nomination on Capitol Hill. President Bush has nominated Vice Admiral Thad Allen to be Coast Guard Commandant. Allen, you might remember, replaced FEMA chief Michael Brown as the top federal official in charge of relief efforts. But now Republican Senator John Ensign of Nevada has put a hold on Allen's nomination.

CNN has learned that Ensign raised concerns to Allen about Coast Guard policy on Katrina pet evacuations. Ensign, we should point out, is a veterinarian.

Former roommate of al Qaeda conspirator Zacarias Moussaoui is on the witness stand today. He won't even appear in court, though. It's a videotaped deposition, and in it the Saudi-born roommate says that the defendant spoke of preparing for a holy war and that it was the only way to get to paradise. He also said Moussaoui counseled him to travel to Pakistan for terror training and bought him small knives that would be easy to hide.

In Connecticut, is the state supreme court denies a request by Kennedy cousin Michael Skakel to reconsider the appeal of his murder conviction. Skakel is serving 20 years to life for the 1975 beating death of his neighbor, Martha Moxley. Skakel could pursue an appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court. The use of deadly force is becoming a legal issue in more state capitals. "USA Today" reports that some time today, Indiana's governor is expected to sign into law just such a measure. It would allow citizens to use deadly force against muggers, attackers or carjackers.

Florida became the first state to grant such powers just a year ago. Now 15 other states are considering similar proposals.

There is a whole new meaning to spring cleaning in Nebraska this morning. People are spending this first full day of spring digging out of a major snowstorm.

More than a foot of snow fell in parts of Nebraska, Kansas, Colorado and the Dakotas. At least five deaths are blamed on the storm.

In Oklahoma, it's a different problem. There are reports of at least two tornadoes touching down yesterday. But there were no injuries reported.

Let's see what's happening across the nation. Dave Hennen has that for us.

(WEATHER REPORT)

KAGAN: Don't you just hate it when the airline loses your luggage? You might want to get used to it.

A new study says it's happening all around the world and the problem is getting worse as air travel increases. An industry report estimates that airlines will lose about 30 million bags this year. The study also found the percentage of bags lost last year is slightly up from 2004. Bummer.

Coming up at the top of the hour, Liberian president Ellen Johnson-Sirleaf is at the White House today meeting with President Bush. After that meeting, she meets with our Kyra Phillips. You won't want to miss the interview, 1:00 p.m. Eastern, right here on CNN.

Meanwhile, YOUR WORLD TODAY continues after a quick break.

I'm Daryn Kagan.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CLANCY: Hello, everyone, and welcome back to YOUR WORLD TODAY, here on CNN International. I'm Jim Clancy.

VERJEE: And I'm Zain Verjee. Here are some of the top stories we're following.

About 100 Iraqi insurgents stormed a police station north of Baghdad, killing at least 18 officers and wounding four others. Some 30 detainees were freed in the assault, and about a dozen vehicles destroyed. Eleven insurgents approximately were killed.

U.S. President George W. Bush says his administration will encourage Iraqi leaders to reach out across sectarian lines to form a national unity government.

CLANCY: A high-speed chase in Israel ended with the arrest of ten Palestinians. Police say those men were in a van. Along with them, five kilograms of explosives. It was on the road well traveled, the main highway, Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. The arrest coming just after a terror alert issued, when a would-be suicide bomber allegedly entered from the West Bank.

VERJEE: Some new pictures now we're getting out of France, where thousands of students march through Paris this day. It was the latest in a series of demonstrations against France's new job laws. That law essentially makes it easier for employers to hire and then fire younger workers. On Monday, students met with Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin, who is signaling that he may be willing to compromise.

CLANCY: There are new developments involving an investigation into an incident in the Iraqi city of Haditha last November. American forces are alleged to have attacked two Iraqi families after a marine was killed by a roadside bomb.

Barbara Starr has been following this story from the Pentagon. Barbara, what's new in the case now?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, we'll get to that in just a minute, Jim. There is some video that is emerging. But let's just recount for our viewers where things stand. It was November 19th of last year in Haditha. Marines on patrol came under attack. There was an IED, they said. And they said that 15 Iraqi civilians at the time were killed in this roadside blast.

But there are now allegations that that is not what happened, that there was small arms fire after the roadside blast, marines moved towards two or three houses near the road, there was an exchange of gun fire, and that the 15 civilians, Iraqis, were killed in that exchange of gunfire.

We're going to show some video now that is potentially very disturbing to viewers. It was taken by an Iraqi human rights unit, a journalism student that worked with them at the time. This is purported, indeed, Jim, to be the aftermath of this attack in Haditha. Some of it simply too graphic to show. CNN has not independently confirmed that this video is what the human rights organization says it is, but many news agencies now showing it, that it is believed to be tied, perhaps, to this attack.

What has happened, of course, is the U.S. military has opened a criminal investigation, into what happened here, trying to determine how 15 Iraqi civilians died, apparently, some of them with very close range wounds. Whether there was any criminal violations of the uniform code of military justice, whether U.S. troops acted in accordance with the rules of engagement, or whether something else transpired here -- Jim.

CLANCY: All right, Barbara, let's back up even a little bit further. Now, were any marines killed or injured in what they say was an IED attack? I mean, is this considered to be taking revenge out on civilians? Is that what's being alleged by some?

STARR: Well, let's be clear. Indeed, one U.S. marine was killed in the initial IED blast. A number of insurgents, people identified to be insurgents, also killed and wounded. But let's also be clear, Jim, when all the dust settled, some of the Iraqi civilians that were killed were very small children and women, people not of military age, not serving in the military.

Now, the question on the table is going to be whether there was a willful violation of the rules of engagement, if you will, whether the U.S. troops opened up on the civilians knowing that they were civilians, or whether there was some incident, perhaps, that could be construed as fog of war or confusion.

They were taking small arms fire, they said, from a house after the roadside blast, as they tried to suppress that arms fire, did they inadvertently wound civilians? Of course, one of the great challenges in Iraq is insurgents often virtually hide in plain sight, in villages, in farmhouses with their own families, with women and children, and it becomes a very difficult proposition.

However, what is really troubling to the U.S. military here is the original report from the marines at the time was that 15 civilians died in a roadside blast. Now, they had a tip, they conducted an initial investigation, and they have now moved to a criminal investigation on the basis that the information they had in the weeks following that incident simply did not match what the marines originally reported -- Jim.

CLANCY: All right, Barbara Starr with the latest there. And Barbara, we thank you, as always.

VELSHI: A jury found an army dog handler guilty on Tuesday of abusing detainees at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison by terrifying them with a military dog, allegedly for his own amusement. Sergeant Michael J. Smith was found guilty of six of 13 counts. The military jury deliberated for about 18 hours over three days before announcing this verdict. He still faces a sentencing hearing. Disturbing photos of dogs barking and growling at inmates was seen around the world in the abuse scandal, and that hurt Washington's efforts to win support for the war.

CLANCY: Well, this week, we've really have been taking a close look at Iraq. And it's all over in the news, because this begins the fourth year of the U.S. presence there. But there's another story today that I think is just as important. You have to look back on what it means. The U.S. assault on Afghanistan began in 2001. That was, of course, following the September 11th attacks that were plotted in Afghanistan, those attacks on Washington and New York.

VERJEE: And the main purpose, really, was to drive out the ruling Taliban, which had provided safe harbor for Osama bin Laden.

But as Mike Chinoy reports, the Taliban appears to be making a resurgence, if not thriving, just across the border in the Waziristan region of Pakistan.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MIKE CHINOY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Taliban appeared to have taken effective control of much of the rugged Pakistani tribal area called Waziristan. And this is the result: a brutal system America went to war in Afghanistan to destroy, recreated just across the border in Pakistan. These men executed, their bodies dragged through the streets, a chilling scene the Taliban claims recorded by their own cameraman.

Journalist Ahmed Rashid wrote the definitive book on the Taliban.

AHMED RASHID, AUTHOR, "TALIBAN": It's very similar to what has been going on, or what was going on, in the early period of the Taliban rule in Afghanistan. They are hanging people and torturing people who they consider as un-Islamic or who they consider as brigans (ph) or bandits. They are posing -- imposing very strict rules on women. There have been some areas where TVs have been burned or broken.

CHINOY: And in a video, as slickly produced as it is gruesome, flaunting their brutality, verses from the Koran superimposed on dangling corpses. "The fate of unbelievers," the narrator intones, "Jihad against bandits. Alla punishes the oppressors."

SAMINA AHMED, INTERNATIONAL CRISIS GROUP: Judging on this documentary that they've made, they're boasting about what they have done. It seems like they have fairly comfortable positions, that they are -- they don't feel threatened. That they are pretty much in control.

CHINOY (on camera): Reinforcing that impression, the video was shot not in some remote mountain hideout, but in Waziristan's main town, Miran Shah. And it chose events which it says occurred just in the last couple of months.

RASHID: They are eliminating any tribesmen or tribal chiefs who are allied to the government. Something like 100 tribal chiefs, or maliqs (ph) as we call them, have been assassinated in the past one year alone.

CHINOY: So pervasive is the Taliban's grip that 70,000 Pakistani troops have been unable to dislodge them, despite fierce battles like this. Instead, the army's campaign has alienated many locals, mainly Pushtun (ph) tribes who practice an extremely conservative form of Islam, and have long resisted the authority of the government in Islamabad. The result, growing support for the Taliban and for Osama bin Laden, who is widely believed to be hiding in the region.

RASHID: There has been an enormous radicalization, and extremism has become very popular there. Clearly, bin Laden has a very sympathetic base in which to hide and which to operate from.

CHINOY: One consequence, Waziristan has become an increasingly important base for launching attacks against U.S. and Afghan government forces across the border in Afghanistan.

RASHID: I think it's very important as a base, because you have there, not just after Afghan Taliban, but you have Arabs, central Asians, Chechens, Africans, the kind of same groups of people that you had in Afghanistan before 9/11.

CHINOY: So concerned is the Afghan government become that President Hamid Karzai has publicly denounced Pakistan for failing to reign in the jihadis, even presenting Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf with a list of alleged terrorists said to be hiding on the Pakistani side of the border. The accusation infuriated Musharraf, and has generated a bitter public quarrel between the two most important U.S. allies in the war on terror.

PERVEZ MUSHARRAF, PAKISTANI PRESIDENT: I'm totally disappointed with their intelligence, and I feel there is a very, very deliberate attempt to malign Pakistan by some agents, and President Karzai is totally oblivious of what is happening in his own country.

CHINOY: Indeed, the Taliban's video underscores the fact that the situation appears to be getting worse. In the bazaar in Miran Shah, crowds gawk as the bodies of men hanged as criminals, some accused of possessing pornographic material, others of drinking alcohol. While the narrator declares, after you see this video, maybe you will feel more support for the cause of jihad.

Mike Chinoy, CNN, Islamabad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VERJEE: Pakistan could come under more pressure to reign in militants as NATO expands its peacekeeping operation into southern Afghanistan. That's just across the border.

NATO Secretary-General Jaap De Hoop Scheffer is in Washington for a round of meetings on that mission and more. He joins us now from our bureau in the U.S. capital.

Thanks so much for being with us.

To what extent is the Taliban insurgency growing or making a comeback in Afghanistan? What is NATO's assessment?

JAAP DE HOOP SCHEFFER, NATO SECY.-GENERAL: Well, it is certainly true, that when they saw the Taliban and other spoilers of the process, Democratic process in Afghanistan, when they saw and realized that NATO was expanding into the southern provinces, they have tried to influence the debate in Europe, and they have tried to with attacks to prevent NATO from coming in.

But imagine what would happen if NATO would not do what it's now doing, and imagine what the fate of Afghanistan would be. In other words, NATO is expanding its mission into the southern provinces, and NATO will do what is necessary to win the hearts and minds of the people and to make reconstruction possible and to extend the authority of the central government.

VERJEE: The U.S. administration has a proposal essentially saying, you know, turn over the U.S. troops command to NATO by some time early next year. And it's raising questions about NATO, because NATO's role in Afghanistan has mainly been peacekeeping and not combat. And the question is, will NATO be able to engage the Taliban as aggressively as the U.S. forces did?

DE HOOP SCHEFFER: Well, NATO is leading a stabilization mission. NATO is involved in reconstruction as well. There's a big but here. If the spoilers, if the Taliban or others would go for NATO as a target, the way we are coming into the south is so robust that they should be under no illusion that when NATO comes in, it will all become different. NATO is there on the basis of a robust set of rules of engagement...

VERJEE: So NATO would fight aggressively, NATO would engage in combat if it came to that?

DE HOOP SCHEFFER: The NATO mission is not primarily a counterterrorism issue, but I can assure you, if there are spoilers in the process, NATO will know the way how to act.

VERJEE: President Bush praised NATO for its training mission in Iraq, saying that it's empowering Iraqi forces. What is your assessment of Iraqi troops. When do you think they will be able to take over security in Iraq?

DE HOOP SCHEFFER: Well, that's hard to say. I've been there a number of times. And speaking for the NATO training mission, which is the biggest priority of the Iraqi government, I can say that we are doing well. I would like to see the training mission expand with some other courses, but NATO is training the Iraqi armed forces, are happy about what NATO is doing, and we'll certainly go on with this important mission. Because it's up to the Iraqis to take their fate into their own hands, and if NATO can participate in making that happen, I think that's a plus for Iraqis and Iraqi people.

VERJEE: President Bush wants NATO to make something else happen. He wants NATO to take the lead in the situation of the western region of Sudan, in Darfur. NATO is expectedly playing more of a supportive role in the capacity for the African Union. Will NATO take a lead?

DE HOOP SCHEFFER: What is important, is when we discuss the pillage, and the rape and the violence, mass murder in Darfur, it's that the African Union, which is now running the mission, decides, has decided, in fact, to transfer the mission to the U.N., the United Nations. That means that Security Council resolution should be accepted in New York on the basis of which a U.N. force could come in.

VERJEE: Will NATO put troops on the ground? DE HOOP SCHEFFER: NATO will not put troops on the ground. But I do exclude that NATO allies, individual allies, will participate in a U.N. mission.

VERJEE: Why wouldn't NATO put troops on the ground? Because if there's ever a opportunity to step up and protect -- you know, up to 200,000 people who have been killed. More than two million people have been displaced, and if the U.S. has called what's going on there genocide, isn't this the exact kind of mission that NATO should step up to and put boots on the ground?

DE HOOP SCHEFFER: It is a mission that is now going to be taken over by the United Nations. And if the U.N. or the African Union comes to NATO and asks NATO to support that mission, NATO will support.

But I do not see and consider it feasible to have a NATO force on the ground. It will be a U.N. force. That is what the African Union has decided. That is what having the support of the international community. NATO will enable, NATO will support the African Union or the U.N. if the question comes to NATO's place, but the NATO alliance as such will not put a force on the ground in Darfur.

VERJEE: NATO Secretary-General Jaap De Hoop Scheffer, speaking to us this day from Washington D.C. Thanks so much for being with us.

DE HOOP SCHEFFER: Thank you.

CLANCY: We've got to take a break.

VERJEE: Still ahead right here on YOUR WORLD TODAY: The calendar, the last time I looked, Jim, said it's spring, but the conditions on the ground say something else.

CLANCY: Scraping out after the storms. The U.S. experiences some rather rough weather. We're going to tell you all about that, coming up next.

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CLANCY: Welcome back everyone. This is YOUR WORLD TODAY on CNN International.

VERJEE: And it's springtime in the United States, but winter weather refusing to go quietly.

(WEATHER REPORT)

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VERJEE: Time for us to open our "Inbox" and see all the e-mails we've been getting.

CLANCY: Our question this day was, are Iraqis better off now than three years ago, before the U.S. invaded? VERJEE: Ray Lawal writes, from the U.S, "Definitively Iraqis are worse off now than while under Saddam. Poor Iraqis today with all the violence, uncertainties, killings. I feel sorry for them. You can't export democracy. It must come from within."

CLANCY: Now another viewer, also from the U.S. here, Carter Moody, says, "My refugee friends from Iraq tell me 'No, Iraqi people are not better off now,' and I believe them."

VERJEE: Ray in Holland writes in, "Yes, I think Iraq and all countries are better off in a democracy as opposed to a dictatorship. The USA, President Bush and all the free world did not want it to happen the way it is unfolding now. President Bush can't be blamed for the violence in Iraq."

CLANCY: Tom writes this from Canada: "How would we ever know? There's never any interviews with the average Iraqi. However, observers should know if they have better services before of since the invasion, running water, power."

VERJEE: That's a few of the e-mails that you wrote us. It's always good to hear from you, WYT@cnn.com. That's it for our program right now.

CLANCY: I'm Jim Clancy.

VERJEE: And I'm Zain Verjee.

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