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Your World Today

Controversial Immigration Bill Overwhelmingly Passes in French Parliament; Donald Rumsfeld Testifies on Capitol Hill About National Guard on Border; Artillery Barrage Takes Toll on Gaza Families; Interview with Madeleine Albright

Aired May 17, 2006 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JIM CLANCY, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Focus on immigration. The U.S. defense secretary defends proposed border security moves before members of Congress.
RALITSA VASSILEVA, INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Living in fear. Human rights groups launched a legal challenge to stop Israeli artillery fire into northern Gaza.

CLANCY: And Myanmar's forgotten war. Ethnic tribes people flee from a lifetime of violence and repression.

Well, it is noon in Washington, and 10:30 p.m. in Yangon, the capital of Myanmar.

I'm Ralitsa Vassileva.

CLANCY: I'm Jim Clancy.

Welcome to our viewers throughout the world and in the United States.

This is YOUR WORLD TODAY.

As we look on, the debate over immigration is intensifying, is the only way to describe it, on two continents today.

VASSILEVA: In France, lawmakers approve a tough new measure that will clamp down on entry for unskilled and uneducated workers.

CLANCY: And in the United States, there are growing questions about whether the plan that was put forth by President Bush is the way to go, particularly using National Guard troops in a supporting role along the border with Mexico.

VASSILEVA: And we begin in Paris, when the lower house of parliament has overwhelmingly approved a bill that lets the government choose who will enter the country, among other provisions.

Jim Bittermann joins us now live from Paris with more details on that -- Jim.

JIM BITTERMANN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Ralitsa.

In fact, that bill on immigration was approved by a 2-1 majority. It was 367-164 the vote in the parliament this afternoon. And basically, I think what the parliament was doing was reflecting what the attitude is out on the streets.

Even before the vote was taken, about 60 percent of the French said that something had to be done about immigration. And one of the members of parliament stood up today and said that he had a poll that indicated 80 percent of the French agree with the measures taken in this law. Basically, this law is going to make it tougher on illegal immigrants who are already here and be much more -- and make it much more selective about those who are allowed to have legal immigration, allowed to come into the country legally.

One of the opposition members of parliament stood up and said this is going to turn France into a creditor, basically taking the best skilled workers from the underdeveloped world, while leaving behind those who are unskilled. Nonetheless, the majority prevailed here by a vast, vast margin. And I think that it did reflect what the French population is thinking.

VASSILEVA: We apologize. We are experiencing some technical difficulties with that live shot from Paris. Jim Bittermann reporting on a bill that has just passed in the legislature, in parliament in France, a controversial immigration bill restricting and tightening immigration law in France.

We will continue to monitor the story and bring you the latest on it.

CLANCY: Immigration at the top of the government agenda in the United States as well. A Senate debate on immigration now under way and really being seen in a sense as a popularity test for this U.S. president. It comes two days after President Bush made a pitch for immigration reform, a pitch that included a guest worker program which would see foreign workers come in and fill jobs in the United States, but for a limited time.

Amendments to the plan are being watched carefully. They'll be gauging just how much political support the president has, including within his own party.

Now, as well, Mr. Bush called for strengthening security along the border with Mexico. And that would mean deploying, in his plan, as many as 6,000 National Guard troops there.

Questions on that were put to U.S. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld this day. He's before a Senate committee in Washington. He was asked just a short time ago if the U.S. military is already stretched too thin to handle the job of patrolling the U.S.-Mexico border.

Barbara Starr joins us now live from the Pentagon -- Barbara.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim, what is perhaps the most interesting at this point is the extent to which the immigration debate now has the Pentagon right in its crosshairs because of this proposal to put up to 6,000 troops over the next two years intermittently, if you will, on that southern border with Mexico.

Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld testifying before the Senate Appropriations Committee this morning, talking about the whole issue and saying that in his view, he feels the National Guard will not be stretched too thin. They will be able to keep up with the requirements they have in Iraq and Afghanistan, and deal with any domestic disaster relief issues with the upcoming hurricane season.

Have a listen to what the secretary had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: The up to 6,000 guardsmen and women proposed for this effort represent less than 2 percent of the total National Guard force of some 400,000 plus. And for the most part, they will be deployed during their two or three week active duty for training period. As such, this will not only not adversely effect America's ability to conduct the war on terror or respond to other domestic emergencies, it will actually provide useful real-life training for the members of the National Guard.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: And the secretary also offered some interesting examples, Jim, of how the immigration issue is affecting the military. He spoke about a training range that the U.S. military had been running along that border with Mexico. But they were having issues with people trying to cross into the United States, across that training range, where firing exercises were going on.

And he said it had become a safety issue for the people that were trying to get into the United States, and so the military had stopped using it. He hopes, he said, that part of what the National Guard can do is work on building fences and barriers, of course, so that people trying to cross the border illegally will not be injured, not be hurt by any military training operations on that border -- Jim.

CLANCY: Barbara, a question about just how effective this is all going to be. And I think for international viewers, we should explain here that when someone joins the National Guard, they continue on at their present job. But for a couple or three weeks a year, as the secretary, we heard him say, they come out for training with the National Guard, and for that they receive some money and things.

But the real question, how effective can these troops be if they're just coming in cold to the job for two weeks and then going back home?

STARR: Well, you know, the National Guard here in the United States has been doing some of this type of work on the border for many years. What they are saying is it's the type of thing that they are trained to do: surveillance, reconnaissance, providing medical support, backing up the civilian border patrol authorities who will conduct the law enforcement, the arrests and detention.

They will -- they say that this operation on the border will be rotational, as you say. People will move in and out because they don't want to disrupt their private lives. They don't want to disrupt their jobs.

But they think they can handle it. They also want to keep the National Guard, however, ready to handle any hurricane disaster relief that may come up -- Jim.

CLANCY: All right. Barbara Starr reporting there for us live from the Pentagon.

Barbara, thank you.

VASSILEVA: The White House has agreed to brief two congressional intelligence committees about the National Security Agency's domestic spying program. U.S. President George W. Bush's choice to head the CIA, Air Force General Michael Hayden, faces confirmation hearings beginning Thursday. Hayden was in charge when the program was launched, and lawmakers say they have questions for him.

Meanwhile, another telecom company is denying it provided the NSA with records from billions of domestic phone calls. Verizon now says it didn't do it. BellSouth has been denying that, too. A class action lawsuits have already been filed against those companies and AT&T for allegedly providing information.

CLANCY: Iran's hard-line president ridiculing European overtures to offer incentives to Tehran in return for a freeze on its planned uranium enrichment program. Tuesday, diplomats revealed that Britain, France and Germany were weighing an offer that would give Tehran a light water nuclear reactor as part of a package of incentives. But Mahmoud Ahmadinejad appeared to reject that plan even before it was officially offered.

The president repeated this threat to pull out of the nuclear nonproliferation treaty in a speech before thousands of people in central Iran that was carried live on national television.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD, IRANIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): They say they want to give us incentives. Do you think you're dealing with a 4-year-old child to whom you can give some walnuts and chocolates and get gold from him?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CLANCY: Well, meanwhile, high-level meetings in London to discuss the impasse have now been postponed.

VASSILEVA: Human rights groups have launched a legal challenge to stop artillery fire by the Israeli military in northern Gaza. A court decision is still days away, maybe weeks.

CLANCY: In the meantime, though, Palestinian families say they're living in constant fear.

We get more from Gaza and our own John Vause.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN VAUSE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): This is what Palestinians in northern Gaza have been living with for the last six weeks. The Israeli military has fired more than 5,000 artillery rounds to try and stop Palestinian militants from launching these crude Kasam rockets.

Israel says the shelling is working. The accuracy and frequency of the rocket attacks has been greatly reduced. But it's also had a devastating impact on civilians.

This is the village of Um Naser. Itmad Salam and her eight children say they live in absolute terror.

"When we hear the shelling we start running away," she tells me. "I take all of the kids and we start running everywhere away from the house."

Itmad, it seems, has good reason to be afraid. The house next door, she says, was hit by an Israel shell, wounding one person.

(on camera): It would certainly appear that this artillery round was not just one stray shot. In the area around the house, there's five or six small craters in the ground, the impact from Israeli shelling.

(voice over): The Salam family now all sleep in the same room. But the children say they have nightmares. Itmad says her youngest ones wet the bed, and it seems they're not alone.

DR. EYAD SARAJ, GAZA PSYCHIATRIST: Most of the children are in a state of stress and anxiety with a heightened state of tension because of the Israeli shelling of the north of Gaza. Some of the children already at the age of seven and eight taking sleeping pills.

VAUSE: The mayor of Um Naser, Zaed Abu Friya (ph), says his village has been without electricity for more than a week because the power lines were hit and repair crews won't come. "This street here is where the children walk from their homes to schools," he tells me. "And this is where the shells are falling."

Rami Abu Hashid (ph) was on his way to school when he says an Israeli shell exploded nearby. His face and legs peppered with shrapnel.

"I'm afraid to go to school now," he says. "All of the parents are afraid to send their children to school."

Palestinian doctors say the artillery has killed five civilians. The Israeli military says it can't confirm that those casualties were caused by artillery fire and says it has no choice but to fire close to civilian areas because that's where the militants fire their rockets. But Israeli and Palestinian human rights groups have launched a legal challenge, arguing the army had violated international law. Whether the artillery barrage continues is now a question for Israel's highest court.

John Vause, CNN, Um Naser, Gaza.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CLANCY: All right. We're going to take a short break and shift gears.

In fact, do you like going to the movies?

VASSILEVA: Oh, yes. I love it.

CLANCY: In Cannes? That's where we're going next.

VASSILEVA: Well, I haven't been there, but I would love to go there.

Well, Cannes, actually -- well, the talk there and the buzz is dominated by one smiling lady who has moved from the picture frame to the moving picture show.

CLANCY: And they were all smiles once. It seems like yesterday.

VASSILEVA: That's when all their troubles seemed so far away. Today, well, it's a different story.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VASSILEVA: Welcome back.

Gossip and glitter, celebrities and controversy. They're all the ingredients that make up a Cannes Film Festival. "The Da Vinci Code," the movie, based on the hugely successful novel, opens the event.

Brooke Anderson is joining us now live to share the Cannes buzz.

Brooke, the book very successful, but it seems like the critics really didn't like that movie. They were laughing at it at a certain point.

BROOKE ANDERSON, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: They were, Ralitsa. In fact, I was among those in the screening last night, the very first world screening for critics, and the reception was very cool. In fact, some people are saying it was dull, that it was painfully long at two and a half hours.

There was one scene, Ralitsa, that was meant to be serious and people were laughing. So that's never a good sign.

And when people say it's long, that is in stark contrast to the book, which you talk about is so popular. The book was a thrill ride for many. A very fun, adventurous scavenger hunt. But the reception has been very cool. But despite all of that, and despite the controversy that has surrounding both the book and the film, the stars of "The Da Vinci Code" seem to be totally unaffected by it.

They arrived here in Cannes yesterday from London by a train. They hopped off the train. They were all smiles, waving at the press and the fans. So they seemed totally unfazed by everything.

Now, they held a press conference earlier today, where Ron Howard and Tom Hanks both addressed all the controversy. And Howard had a bit of advice for those people who might be offended by the story.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RON HOWARD, DIRECTOR: There's no question that the film is likely to be upsetting to some people. My advice is, since virtually no one has really seen the movie yet, is to not go see the movie if you think you're going to be upset. Wait.

Talk to somebody who has seen it. Discuss it. And then arrive at an opinion about the movie itself. But again, this is supposed to be entertainment. It's not theology.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: And Howard also said that he believes the film will do well at the box office despite the poor reviews because the book was so high profile, because it was so popular -- 160 weeks on "The New York Times" best seller list.

Ralitsa, I want to add that this film cost $125 million to make. And it is opening worldwide this weekend.

VASSILEVA: Brooke Anderson, thank you very much.

Well, it's not always the case, and very often the viewers like a movie that the critics have panned. So...

CLANCY: Yes. This one's getting it pretty hard, though, if you read some of those reviews. And that brings us to our "Question of the Day," your opinion.

VASSILEVA: Is there a grain of truth to "The Da Vinci Code," or is it just pure entertainment? E-mail your thoughts. YWT...

CLANCY: YWT@CNN.com -- in stereo.

Right, Ralitsa?

I'm really curious to hear what people have to say...

VASSILEVA: Me too.

CLANCY: ... what they think about this "Da Vinci Code". Is it a grain of truth or just, as Ron Howard said, entertainment?

Well, after four years of marriage, Sir Paul McCartney and his wife, Heather Mills, announcing plans to let it be. The couple issued a joint statement Wednesday saying that they're going to go their separate ways.

Becky Anderson joins us now live from London.

Becky, what happened?

BECKY ANDERSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim, you join us on a miserable day in London, outside what is or was the married home of Sir Paul McCartney and Heather Mills.

As you suggest, they decided to go their separate ways, and in an ironic twist of fate, the man who penned the hymn to happiness and compassionate and companionship will effectively spend his 64th birthday on his own at this point. Of course, he wrote the song "When I'm 64".

What went wrong, Jim? Well, many people say that Heather Mills resented living with a man who stole more of the limelight than she did. They say that Sir Paul McCartney is looking for a quieter life these days, whereas Heather Mills, 26 years his junior, is looking to ramp up her charity events and commitments.

There are also those who say that she was a shameless self promoter who saw him as a means to success. Indeed, Stella McCartney, his daughter, is said to see her father's wife as a manipulator.

Who knows whether any of these stories are right. What we do know is that they have decided to go their separate ways.

And in a statement today form Sir Paul McCartney, he says, "It's been suggested that she married me for the money. There is not one ounce of truth in that." He says, "She's a very generous person who spends most of her time trying to help others in greater need than herself."

So what went wrong? We probably will never know. We've heard from them. They say they have decided to go their separate ways. Effectively, their marriage is over -- Jim.

CLANCY: Becky Anderson there reporting to us the latest. Sir Paul McCartney splitting up. And I guess the woman won't suffer the scorn that Yoko Ono had to put up with.

Thank you.

VASSILEVA: Well, heartbreaking news from the world of athletics. For five days, American Olympic and world champion Justin Gatlin thought he was the fastest man in the world. But last Friday, in Doha, Qatar, Gatlin's time of 9.76 in the 100 meters was announced as the new world record.

However, the company responsible for timing informed the sports governing body that the time was actually 9.766. Under official rules, it should have been rounded up to 9.77. Thus, Gatlin now shares the world record with Jamaica's Asafa Powell.

Still, quite an achievement.

CLANCY: Still quite an achievement. I don't' think many people will ever do it that fast.

We're going to take a break quickly. Still ahead, we'll check the headlines across the U.S. for our American viewers.

VASSILEVA: And for the rest of our viewers, we'll look at the world business headlines.

And then, she was known as an outspoken secretary of state. Now an outspoken author. We will speak with Madeleine Albright.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Daryn Kagan at CNN Center in Atlanta. More of YOUR WORLD TODAY in just a few minutes. First, though, let's check on stories making headlines here in the U.S.

It is now up to the jury. Deliberations began about an hour ago in the Enron case.

Former executives Kenneth Lay and Jeffrey Skilling are accused of fraud and conspiracy in the collapse of the energy giant. They say they're innocent. It is one of the biggest corporate scandals ever. Both Lay and Skilling face long prison terms if convicted.

Letting lawmakers in on secret surveillance. Today the White House is briefing all members of the House and Senate intelligence committees on the domestic wiretap program. But the Bush administration says discretion is important to keep information out of the hands of terrorists.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TONY SNOW, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: You've got surveillance that is being conducted in order to find al Qaeda members here and abroad who are trying to kill Americans. And the idea of somehow spilling the beans so those al Qaeda members then can adjust their behavior and their techniques and their approaches to terrorism would be grossly irresponsible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: The briefings come ahead of tomorrow's confirmation hearings for General Michael Hayden to be the CIA director. Hayden headed the National Security Agency when the domestic surveillance program was authorized.

A new development to report in the debate over illegal immigration as we look at live pictures from Capitol Hill. Just within the last hour, the Senate set a new limit on the so-called guest worker program. Lawmakers voted to exclude illegal immigrants convicted of a felony or three misdemeanors.

President Bush has voiced support for the guest worker program. It would allow some illegal immigrants to remain in the country.

Just within the last couple of hours, as well, we have heard more about plans to put National Guard troops on the border. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Peter Pace appeared before a Senate panel. They assured lawmakers that such a deployment would help and not hurt the Guard's readiness.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUMSFELD: The up to 6,000 guardsmen and women proposed for this effort represent less than 2 percent of the total National Guard force of some 400,000 plus. And for the most part, they will be deployed during their two or three week active duty for training period. As such, this will not only not adversely affect America's ability to conduct the war on terror, or respond to other domestic emergencies, it will actually provide useful real-life training for the members of the National Guard.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: And now to New Orleans. Live pictures, where smoke is billowing over. We have been bringing you these pictures of a massive warehouse fire that's taking place there.

It's located near the New Orleans Convention Center. The warehouse has been fully engulfed for about two hours now. Firefighters attacking it from the air and the ground.

The rain has eased for now in New England, but water worries remain. They're watching a dam in Amesbury, Massachusetts. Crews are worried that broken pieces from the dam or other debris may block a river and flood downtown.

Flood damage is estimated in the tens of millions of dollars. And that's just Massachusetts. At least one death is being blamed on the high water.

What is happening in the weather picture today? Bonnie Schneider keeping an eye on New England and the rest of the country.

Hi, Bonnie.

BONNIE SCHNEIDER, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Hi, Daryn.

(WEATHER REPORT)

KAGAN: All right. Thank you, Bonnie.

Paul McCartney and Heather Mills aren't singing silly love songs to each other anymore. Today the couple announced they're separating. They have been married for four years and have a 2-year-old daughter. They say the split is amicable. On his Web site, the former Beatle asked for space, he also lashed out at the media for suggesting Mills married him for his money.

Panned at Cannes. Some critics ripped into "The Da Vinci Code" after a special screening at the French film festival. Our Brooke Anderson, who's at the gathering, says that some critics laughed and jeered at what was supposed to be a serious scene. The highly- anticipated film premieres in the U.S. on Friday.

You can hear more about "The Da Vinci Code" premier and the Cannes Film Festival on "LIVE TODAY".

Also ahead, working the border. An exclusive interview with the chief of the National Guard. That's with "LIVE FROM" with Kyra Phillips at the top of the hour.

Meanwhile, YOUR WORLD TODAY will continue after a quick break.

I'm Daryn Kagan.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CLANCY: To our viewers in the United States and around the world, welcome back to YOUR WORLD TODAY. I'm Jim Clancy.

VASSILEVA: Here are some of the top stories we're following this hour.

The lower House of the French parliament has overwhelmingly approved an controversial immigration bill. The bill makes it more difficult for unskilled or uneducated immigrants to enter the country. It also ends the practice of granting immediate citizenship for those in the country for at least ten years. The bill now goes to the Senate, where it's also expected to pass.

CLANCY: U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld says if National Guard troops are deployed along the U.S. border with Mexico, that will not detract from the military's missions. His comments coming two days after President George W. Bush outlined his immigration reform, including using as many as 6,000 National Guard troops along the border.

VASSILEVA: Iran's president has refused European overtures aimed at curbing his country's nuclear program. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad likened plans to offer incentives in return for a freeze on uranium enrichment to a child being offered candy for gold. Meanwhile, a high level meeting in London to discuss the Iran impasse has been postponed.

CLANCY: In a long and illustrious career, Madeleine Albright has been the first female secretary of state and has served as the U.S.' permanent representative to the United Nations, among other things. Now, she's out with a book, "The Mighty and the Almighty." It's reflections on America, God, and world affairs. It tackles some of the thorny subjects of the role of religion and faith in international relations. No more is that relevant than today, with the so-called clash of cultures.

We spoke to her a little bit earlier about the book and really got into a wide-ranging discussion about some of the people she's met and her thoughts about the future.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MADELEINE ALBRIGHT, FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: I have said that I don't agree that we're involved in a clash of civilizations. But I do think we are involved in a battle of ideas. There are lots of issues that need to be dealt with in the 21st century, and we need to put our beliefs in general about how society should be run out into the open, in terms of being for something rather than against.

And you take something like the letter from the Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, and while it's full of invective and wrong facts and saber rattling, there are concepts that he talks about, in terms of societies and how we relate to each other, that need to be responded to. And President Bush should not become his pen pal, but somebody should go out there at a very high level give a speech outlining where we are in this battle of ideas, because that's the ultimate way that morality and proper relations will prevail.

CLANCY: You were intimately involved with President Clinton in the Middle East peace process. People wonder today -- Israel says we don't have a negotiating partner, we're not going to negotiate, but we have to define our permanent borders, and that means seizing more Palestinian territory. Is this an impossible conflict to resolve?

ALBRIGHT: Well, I don't think it's an impossible conflict. And, you know, we came very close at Camp David in the summer of 2000. And I think a lot of the parameters that President Clinton outlined are still germane in terms of how to give a new Palestinian state more territory in the West Bank, how to decide on what to do with Jerusalem. A number of different parts.

But what is required here is, I think, much greater American involvement. We spend a great deal of time on this with Ambassador Dennis Ross doing this 24 hours a day, daily basis. I did a lot of work. President Clinton clearly was very much involved. And at this stage, the United States is kind of taking a hands-off approach. And I think our role in trying to bring the sides together is absolutely essential. Clearly, the problems are much more complicated with Hamas' election and..

CLANCY: But isn't there -- with Hamas' election, there's a fundamental here that perhaps American diplomacy hasn't seen. Yes, everyone knows thou shalt not kill. And the suicide bombings, there's no justification for them. At the same time, Palestinians say we've been subjected to armed robbery of our homes and our land, and it goes on with no objection from anyone.

ALBRIGHT: Well, I do think that there has to be a way to recognize that the Palestinians, the people themselves, are in a very difficult situation, that taxes that are collected on the work that they do within Israel is not automatically given back to them. The fact that the United States has no dealings with Hamas now as a result of law means that money is not going in.

And I think that what has to happen -- because I think the worst thing that can happen for the Middle East peace process is for the Palestinian people to get more and more radicalized because they have no employment and they have an economy that can't function because they're blocked in by closed crossings into Israel. And therefore, there needs to be help through other than government and through non- governmental organizations and international organizations. Because otherwise, we are really coming into an increasingly dangerous situation.

CLANCY: Who is the most fascinating character that you have encountered in all of your travels and diplomacy?

ALBRIGHT: Oh, there have been a lot of fascinating characters. Some because they are, you know, bad and have -- not have great intentions. But fascinating? Kim Jung Il was fascinating because people at my level had never met him. And while he is a dictator and his people are starving, he actually seemed very smart to me, and cagey.

I think the most fantastic person I ever met is actually Nelson Mandela, who is very modest and kind of walked up to me once at the U.N. and said, hi, I'm Nelson Mandela. And I thought, well, we know that.

My personal favorite has to be -- because of being born in Prague, Czechoslovakia -- Vatsla Pavel (ph), who is just a remarkable person who has a wonderful outlook on life and is just a pleasure to spend time with.

But there are a lot of them. And the most interesting thing, I have to say it's often not the great leaders that are fascinating, but the ordinary people who are, especially in Africa, dealing with terrible problems of HIV and AIDS and trying to live after ethnic cleansing in Rwanda. So they really -- one of the great pleasures of my job was just meeting a wide variety of people at all levels.

CLANCY: You blazed a trail as you traveled around the world, not just in diplomacy but as a woman in diplomacy. And a lot of young woman look up to you. What would you tell them?

ALBRIGHT: Well, I love talking to young women. I have three daughters of my own, and a lot of students. And what I tell them, first of all, is that they have to get a good education, because there is not a lot of room for mediocre women throughout the world. I think that I also tell young women that they have to learn to interrupt, because you often don't get recognized at meetings, and you have to make your voice heard. And once you find your voice, you shouldn't lose it, but you have to know what you're talking about.

And then I also say, it's not useful to go around the world having a chip on your shoulder. The future is something that you can make a difference in, and recognize that a lot of people have been helping to get a new generation of women trained. And that we're all very eager in all societies to have women be politically and economically empowered, not just if one is a feminist, but because it makes societies more stable, and that's what we really want.

CLANCY: Mighty good advice from Madeleine Albright, the author of "The Mighty and the Almighty." Thank you.

ALBRIGHT: Thank you, Jim.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VASSILEVA: No pun intended there.

CLANCY: No.

VASSILEVA: Mighty good advice.

Well, on a more serious note, after the break, fleeing a brutal and forgotten war.

CLANCY: Coming up right here on YOUR WORLD TODAY, we're going to be looking at the tribes on the edge of their own country and on the edge of survival.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CLANCY: Welcome back, everyone, to YOUR WORLD TODAY.

VASSILEVA: I'm Ralitsa Vassileva. Jim Clancy.

Well, returning now to a story that you haven't heard much about in Myanmar, ethnic tribes that are allegedly being subjected to atrocities carried out by government forces.

CLANCY: The struggle is prompting an outpouring of international outrage.

We get our own Dan Rivers in there, in Myanmar, bringing us the story of those people's struggle.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAN RIVERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It may look like an unremarkable muddy river, but what's happening along its verdant banks is the makings of an international scandal. For this tranquil waterway is the border between Myanmar and Thailand, and I'm come to check out one of the most brutal campaigns of ethnic cleansing in the world. We land on the Myanmar side of the river, and are led inland to a village that doesn't officially exist.

The camp doesn't appear on any maps, because six weeks ago, there was nothing here. Since April, they've constructed an entire community, 800 ethnic Karen (ph) tribes people have flooded here from the forests of Myanmar, fleeing in terror from the military government.

I met 60-year-old Shanpar (ph). It took her a month to get here after fleeing her village after it was attacked by Myanmar government forces. She says her husband was captured by the soldiers, tied up and left in the sun for two days before he was buried alive. Life in this camp is tough, and everyone here has their own horrific story. Norhay Nortal (ph) said she arrived here three weeks ago after walking for a fortnight with her four children. She's seven months pregnant, but her baby will never see its father. He died from a fever during the hike here. Her 2-year-old is too young to understand what happened to his daddy.

(on camera): The Karen have nowhere left to run. They have been pushed to the edge by a brutal military regime, which has systematically burning their villages using torture and murder to force them to leave.

(voice-over): For decades, Myanmar has been wracked by ethnic violence. Tribes like Hisham (ph), seen here attacking a government outpost, along with the Karen, have been fighting the hardline military junta. The military government has responded with a violent repression of the ethnic tribes in a bid to cling on to power.

Further down the river, we meet one of the guerrilla groups fighting on behalf of the Karen, known as the Karen National Liberation Army, or KNLA. The camp commander shows off his ragtag group of men. They've been fighting a guerrilla war against the Myanmar government for years, trying to protect the Karen.

He says he can't say if he's winning or losing the war, but he will continue to fight for the freedom of his people. Refugees like Shapah (ph) have endured a lifetime of misery, violence and repression.

But recently, it's got much worse, with hundreds of Karen refugees arriving every month. It's estimated there are 100,000 people like her, who've been forced to run from Myanmar's forgotten war.

Dan Rivers, CNN, Myanmar.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VASSILEVA: Now, to take a closer look at the situation in Myanmar, we're joined by Sein Winn from the National Coalition of the Union of Burma, an exile group, a government in exile, so to speak, made up of elected representatives who were not allowed in the '90s to take their seats in Burma's government after a disputed election. They are trying to facilitate a solution to Burma's political situation and its ethnic problems.

Thanks you so much, Mr. Winn, for joining us.

Your thoughts on this situation. It seems that this is the most serious government offensive against the Karen group in 10 years. Your thoughts on what can be done.

SEIN WINN, NATL. COALITION, UNION OF BURMA: Yes, that's what we are thinking. It's most brutal, and we are now asking United Nations security counsel to act on it, and we would like to have a resolution facilitating the secretary-general to do more for Burma, to release (INAUDIBLE) and the political prisoners and to start talking and acting to have a national...

VASSILEVA: And we're been talking about of Aung San Suu Kyi. the Noble Peace Prize winner. She has been under house arrest for more than a decade now after those disputed elections in which you won a seat, and now you have been in exile, living in exile. Aung San Suu Kyi, of course, deciding to stay there and work for democracy.

What do you think, though, would work? It's been almost 15 years since those disputed elections, and there's very little pressure to bear on the Myanmar regime, the military Junta.

WINN: Yes, but at the same time, the United Nations is not acting, as I said, through Security Council. We have had a question in general assembly, 28 resolutions are passed, and many envoys have gone there, but it is not enough. We need to act through Security Council, and we ask the United States to take the initiative.

VASSILEVA: When you say you ask the United States to take initiative, what specifically would you like the United States to do?

WINN: Well, at the United Nations general Security Council, we would like to have a kind of resolution that will empower secretary- general for more to deal with the consolation problems, and then also for the release of political prisoners. You know.

VASSILEVA: But specifically for the Karen refugees, for the Karen ethnic group, do you believe that there could be some solution within the country itself? We know that the military junta has signed ceasefire agreements with 17 ethnic groups. Is that a possibility, work through that tract?

WINN: Well, it is a military policy, it seems that to target the Karen nationals. Because although others have made ceasefire, we still don't see any political solution. It is just a ceasefire. And then they just stuck it on the Karen. And in that area, most of the Karens are living in that area like (INAUDIBLE) live in, so they want to clear the place and target it on this. And that makes us very sad because these are civil population, you know, and they are now running away, hiding in the jungle, subject to all kinds of atrocities.

VASSILEVA: Yes, as we saw in the story. Sein Winn from the National Coalition of Union for Burma. Thank you very much. And we need to mention that a senior U.N. official will be visiting Myanmar on Thursday, staying there for three days. We'll see what he'll be able to achieve, if anything exert some pressure and draw attention to this problem.

CLANCY: All right. We're going to take a short break. When we come back, YOUR WORLD TODAY takes a closer look at water, the supply problem in the Middle East.

VASSILEVA: And what governments in the region are doing about it. Stay with us.

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GUILLERMO ARDUINO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: ... a holy site for Christians, Jews, and Muslim. For them, Jesus was baptized in these waters, and the Prophet Mohammed buried along the Jurum (ph) River banks. And it also connected to both the Sea of Galilee and the Dead Sea, running for about 100 kilometers or 62 miles.

What do environmentalists say now? The river is so polluted that it's been reduced to a sewage change, which is harmful to both human beings and animals. No relief in sight.

CLANCY: Guillermo, thank you. Depressing but informative. That has to be our report for this day.

I'm Jim Clancy.

VASSILEVA: I'm Ralitsa Vassileva. Thank you for joining us.

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