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Hezbollah 'Stronger Than Before'; Thousands Gather to Hear Hassan Nasrallah; Bush, Musharraf Meet Amid Tensions; Pope's Comments Continue to Rile Muslims

Aired September 22, 2006 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HASSAN NASRALLAH, HEZBOLLAH LEADER (through translator): We are here today to celebrate a victory, a divine, historical and strategic victory.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah leads a massive rally in Beirut and makes a rare public appearance.

JIM CLANCY, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Still friends in the war on terror -- at least that is what the leaders of the United States and Pakistan put forward to the press after a very public disagreement.

GORANI: The devil made him do it, or was it paranoia? A look at what may be behind Venezuelan leader Hugo Chavez's Gringo-bashing speech at the United Nations.

CLANCY: And going for the green in Ireland. The United States bids to reclaim the Ryder Cup from Europe.

Hello, everyone. And welcome to our broadcast from all around the globe.

I'm Jim Clancy.

GORANI: I'm Hala Gorani.

From Beirut to Washington, from Caracas to a very wet and windy Dublin, wherever you're watching, this is YOUR WORLD TODAY.

CLANCY: We begin in Lebanon, where there has been a massive rally and in the words of Hezbollah's leader, a death-defying feat. He appeared for the first time since the war and sent signals in the first volley in a -- in a fight for the country's political future.

GORANI: Well, Hezbollah's top leader called for a new government and says it still has more than 20,000 rockets in its arsenal after the war against Israel. Hassan Nasrallah also said no army in the world can disarm Hezbollah.

Our Beirut bureau chief, Brent Sadler, joins us now on the line for more on this rally in the streets of Beirut.

Were you surprised to see him make a public appearance, Brent?

BRENT SADLER, CNN BEIRUT BUREAU CHIEF: No, there was widespread expectation that Hassan Nasrallah, Hezbollah's leader, would break cover after more than two months in hiding. He disappeared from public view, aside from a string of prerecorded interviews, the day of the kidnapping of those two Israeli soldiers and the outbreak of the war.

He was given a rapturous welcome from hundreds of thousands of supporters amid the ruins of his stronghold south of the capital of Beirut. So, in effect, the stage was set for Nasrallah to declare what Hezbollah calls a divine victory over Israel in the July-August war.

In fact, Nasrallah spoke for much longer than many of us expected, given that there were concerns, deep concerns about his security as a result of Israeli officials saying repeatedly since the war that he's a possible target for assassination. And Nasrallah said at the start early on in his speech that, really, divine help was, indeed, he claims, part of the resistance's victory.

Let's listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NASRALLAH (through translator): We turned their elite forces into frightened mice scurrying. At the time when the international and the Arab world -- how could these few thousand resistance fighters, how could that resistance fight and defeat that army if it wasn't by the support of god, the almighty?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SADLER: Nasrallah also claims that Hezbollah has more than 20,000 rockets. This claim, after Hezbollah fired more than 4,000 Katyusha rockets into Israel during the 34 days of conflict. And he told the large crowd, a mass crowd of supporters, that, "Hezbollah is stronger than it was before the start of the war," much, much stronger, and its organizational capabilities, he claimed, are still very much intact, despite that Israeli offensive which destroyed many parts of the southern suburbs where Nasrallah was speaking from.

GORANI: Brent, very quickly, what do you make of those statements, 20,000 rockets, no disarmament of Hezbollah? Is it rhetoric or is it a more intangible threat?

SADLER: It's not been Nasrallah's style to say things that he has not at some stage in the future been able to back up. Difficult, obviously, to ascertain what arsenal Hezbollah has left. But certainly, it's thought by many observers to be considerable. Nasrallah has also said that there are still Hezbollah fighters close to the Israeli border, despite the continuing deployment of international troops, although their weapons are now very much invisible. As far as the politics of Lebanon are concerned -- and this is really what's going to be interesting in the weeks and months ahead -- is that Nasrallah wants to see a different kind of government. He wants to see a unity government that would tilt much more towards Syria and Iran, that axis, and further away from the current government's policies, which are very much backed by the United States -- Hala.

GORANI: It will be an interesting tug-of-war. Thanks very much.

Our Beirut bureau chief, Brent Sadler, in Beirut -- Jim.

CLANCY: Important to note, Hezbollah's popularity and that of Hassan Nasrallah has really been skyrocketing in the weeks following the cease-fire with Israel. So how does Hezbollah fit into Lebanon's political future? Well, let's see about that.

Hisham Melhem, noted journalist, the Washington bureau chief for Lebanon's "An-Nahar" newspaper, joins us now.

We heard a lot coming from Hassan Nasrallah today. But I think, first of all, you heard from him, in person. Were you surprise that he took the risks? Israel, you know, was saying there was a possibility they could go after him.

HISHAM MELHEM, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, "AN-NAHAR": No, I was not surprised. In fact, Hezbollah has been tantalizing their supporters from the beginning of the week when they declared that they will organize this divine victory rally.

Hezbollah has cultivated its own persona, its almost mythical persona. And he relishes these moments when he addresses his troops, his groups and his supporters and his troops. So, no, I was not surprised.

And I think that he realized the Israelis are not going to attack in the broad daylight and kill so many civilians. So it's -- I was not surprised.

The message also was not surprising. It's a message of defiance. There were so many messages to the Israelis, to the Americans, and to not only its own constituency, but to the Lebanese government.

CLANCY: Well, on that point, and perhaps he's talking about -- he still has 20,000 missiles. Who knows? Nobody knows how many he had to start with.

He also says that, you know, declaring victory, he's done that already. But his call for this government to really be pushed aside in favor of what some have called a national unity government, there, perhaps, are the words that really have struck a chord with a lot of Lebanese, and struck a chord of concern.

MELHEM: This is a broadside against the government, the same government that essentially saved them and negotiated the cease-fire. He is very unhappy because this -- the Siniora government is interpreting Resolution 1701 in a way that is not suiting the Hezbollah strategy.

They want a more viable, robust military force on the borders. They want to -- the Western support -- to patrol Lebanese, the territorial waters, to be at the airport, to make it difficult for Hezbollah to rearm via Syria from Iran.

So he's trying to change the topic, trying to change the subject in Lebanon, instead of focusing on the responsibility of what happened, on the reconstruction. He's challenging the government to form a national unity government which would bring Hezbollah and increase its power within the government and bring some of its allies like General...

CLANCY: Pro-Syrian allies?

MELHEM: Yes, pro-Syrian allies. General (INAUDIBLE), who is obsessed with becoming president, believes now that he may ride to the presidential palace on Nasrallah's coattail. So, Nasrallah now is challenging the government, the same government that he accused of betraying him after the cease-fire, while he was very happy with that same government that was negotiating for the cease-fire. He's trying to change the topic.

CLANCY: All right. But, OK, if this government is in trouble, and it's seen as a pro-Western government, really, can the U.S. do anything to help them? I mean, we heard there as Nasrallah just, you know, lashed out at the U.S. and Israel as if they were in -- they were in league in this attack on Lebanon.

MELHEM: You're absolutely right. He said this is an American war, not only an Israeli war. And he said we undermined the strategy that seeks to rebuild a new Middle East order, in reference to President Bush's policies in the region.

Look, the United States hurt itself badly when it provided Israel for the diplomatic political cover for its attack on Lebanon. So the American credibility now in Lebanon is suffering a lot. And, in fact, Nasrallah is stepping into that role, Lebanese and the Israelis, for what they are -- for the destruction they brought on Lebanon, and this anger against the United States.

But one should not misconstrue this anger and rage to be support for Hezbollah. He is trying essentially now to undermine this Lebanese government. But I don't think the Siniora government is going to be undermined easy. And I think the international community should help the Lebanese government to stand up to Hezbollah, help it in terms of reconstruction, help it in terms of strengthening the Lebanese army.

Look, he is boxed in in the South. He may have 20,000 missiles. I doubt that. But if you look at the missiles that he fired, 4,000 missiles fired against Israel -- he ended up killing 42 Israeli civilians, one third of them were Palestinian Arabs.

So he knows that. But I think he's trying to challenge the government knowing that the Arab world, knowing that the Europeans are reluctant somehow to challenge Hezbollah. But I think he deepened the rift within the Lebanese society.

He talks about national -- national unity government...

CLANCY: All right.

MELHEM: But, in essence -- or a strong Lebanese state -- but in essence he's still undermining the very structure of the Lebanese state.

CLANCY: All right. Maybe a second battle that is under way after a 30-day war. Who knows how long the battle over political change in Lebanon and political direction.

"An-Nahar" newspaper's Washington bureau chief, Hisham Melhem, joining us there.

Hisham, great to have you with us, as always.

MELHEM: Thank you, Jim. Thanks.

GORANI: Still ahead, the art of diplo-speak.

CLANCY: That's right. President Bush and President Musharraf held a White House news conference today. Why did the two leaders avoid the elephant in the room and sidestep such a controversial issue?

GORANI: Also ahead, he's no stranger to controversy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TED TURNER, CNN FOUNDER: Well, a lot of things could be improved. Certainly, our federal government could be improved. Our state governments could be improved. Even CNN can be improved.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GORANI: The founder of this network speaks out on a range of issues.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CLANCY: Welcome back, everyone. You're watching YOUR WORLD TODAY, where we bring CNN's international and U.S. viewers up to speed on the most important international stories of the day.

U.S. President Bush and Pakistan's leader, Pervez Musharraf, say they have a lot of trust, a lot of confidence in one another. But at a White House news conference shortly after their private talks, they did not make any comments about some controversial remarks they both made earlier.

Elaine Quijano join us now from the White House with more on what was said, what was not, and what was really was papered over -- Elaine.

ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hello to you, Jim.

Well, that's right, President Bush and President Pervez Musharraf essentially declined to play a game of he said-he said on the global stage in the East Room of the White House, specifically on the report that in the days after September 11th the United States threatened to bomb Pakistan if it didn't cooperate in the war on terrorism. President Bush was asked to clarify exactly what was said, and here is his response to that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: All I can tell you is that shortly after 9/11, Secretary Colin Powell came in and said, "President Musharraf understands the stakes and he wants to join and help rout out an enemy that has come and killed 3,000 of our citizens." As a matter of fact, my recollection was that one of the first leaders to step up and say that the stakes had changed, that attack on America that killed 3,000 of the citizens needs to be dealt with firmly, was the president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUIJANO: And President Bush and President Musharraf anxious to underscore that they, in fact, are working together. As you noted, they say they have trust and confidence in each other. But since their alliance was forged five years ago, Osama bin Laden still has not brought to justice. They are now pledging that they will continue the hunt for bin Laden together.

Here is General Pervez Musharraf.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEN. PERVEZ MUSHARRAF, PAKISTANI PRESIDENT: We are in the hunt together against these people. Now, why are we bothering of how to -- the semantics of the tactics of how to deal with the situation? We will deal with it. We are in the hunt together.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUIJANO: And an interesting footnote, Jim. After the president, President Bush, sought to clarify that statement, or was asked about it, rather, Pervez Musharraf simply said that he couldn't talk about it because of a pending book release.

He's got a memoir due out at the end of this month. And he essentially said that he would not discuss it.

Now, at the same time, this is the same president who apparently was interviewed by the U.S. network CBS, by the show "60 Minutes." And it, in fact, was his own words that sort of caused this controversy. Nevertheless, Pervez Musharraf today declining to clarify exactly what was said. I can tell you that the former deputy secretary of state, Richard Armitage, who is purported to have said these things, says that that is not what he mentioned. He did not, however, deny that the message was sent very clearly that if countries were not with the United States, that they were against the United States -- Jim.

CLANCY: All right. Elaine Quijano, I guess what President Musharraf really said was, you're going to have to buy the book.

QUIJANO: Exactly.

CLANCY: All right. Thank you very much -- Hala.

GORANI: All right. Well, a showdown between the U.S. president and three senators in his own Republican Party is over, apparently. They were at odds over legislation on how to treat terrorist suspects and detainees and what CIA agents can and cannot do while interrogating them.

A compromise gives Mr. Bush the go-ahead to call military tribunals for terror suspects at Guantanamo Bay. But he dropped his attempt to redefine part of the Geneva Conventions on treatment of prisoners of war. Instead, grave breaches of the Geneva Conventions are defined, acts including torture, cruel and inhuman treatment, and rape. The agreement also allows detainees limited access to classified information contained in charges against them.

All right. So, which side really has won in all of this? Let's go to Andrea Koppel, on Capitol Hill.

Is this really a victory for those rebel Republicans who opposed George Bush's proposal?

ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hala, I think it's both sides can claim victory in this -- in this compromise. They've -- they've each given something and they've each gotten a lot.

Certainly, you had only to look at the faces of those three rebel Republicans, John McCain, John Warner, and Lindsey Graham, as well as the majority leader, Bill Frist, and the national security adviser, Stephen Hadley, and others. You could see some of them were positively beaming. They couldn't wipe the smile off their faces.

There was so much relief on all of their parts that this issue had been resolved. Why is that? Well, number one, of course, it had become an embarrassment for this party that you had such a public divide, not just among any Republicans, but among two especially highly, highly regarded Republicans.

Former POW John McCain and John Warner, who is a 28-year veteran of the Senate, and their president. And they weren't going to give on certain issues. You also, of course, have tremendous relief, because the idea that you would have a divide on what had been for the Republican Party the go-to issue, national security, the real vote- getter in the last two election cycles, how could they tout their accomplishments when one of the president's key demands, that he get this detainee bill, wouldn't have gotten through?

Now it hasn't, as yet, and it will still have to be voted on next week in the Senate and in the House, but the prospects look quite good.

There is one glitch right now, Hala, and that is that one of the House Republicans, a conservative House Republican who was also at that press conference yesterday, Duncan Hunter, chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, raised questions and said effectively that he was not ready to sign off on the bill because he had reservations about, in particular, the idea that detainees or these suspected terrorists would be allowed to see summaries of classified information if a judge decided it was necessary. On that point he said he wasn't going to be able to sign off.

Now, in the next hour, he's supposed to have a press conference. The expectation is that he'll say whatever -- that his concerns have been alleviated and whatnot. That's certainly the indications we've gotten because, again, it's an election year. We're less than seven weeks away from those midterm elections, and the control of both the House and the Senate are really in question -- Hala.

GORANI: All right. Andrea Koppel, thanks so much.

CLANCY: All right. We're going to take a short break here. Our viewers in the United States are going to get a little bit of a look at the news making headlines there next.

GORANI: Also ahead on YOUR WORLD TODAY, sneaker sales tumble, sending Nike's first quarter profits into a dive. Your business update and latest numbers coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: And hello, everyone. I'm Tony Harris at the CNN Center in Atlanta.

More of YOUR WORLD TODAY in just a few minutes. But first, a check of stories making headlines in the United States.

A strong show of unity from allies in the war on terror. President Bush met today with Pakistan's president, Pervez Musharraf. President Bush downplayed any differences with the Pakistani leader over borderlines and the search for Osama bin Laden.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: We're on the hunt, together. It's in the president's interest that al Qaeda be brought to justice. And it's in our interest.

And we collaborate and we strategize and we talk a lot about how best to do this. All I can tell you is, is that when Osama bin Laden is found, he will be brought to justice.

(END VIDEO CLIP) HARRIS: Well, the leaders faced tough questions over whether the U.S. bullied Pakistan into joining the war on terror after 9/11. Pakistan's president tells "60 minutes" the U.S. threatened to bomb Pakistan back to the Stone Age. Mr. Musharraf wouldn't comment today, but the man accused of making the threat talked with CNN.

Here's what former deputy secretary of state Richard Armitage said in an exclusive interview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICHARD ARMITAGE, FMR. DEPUTY SECRETARY OF STATE: No, it's impossible, because, as I said, I don't make a threat I can't back up. I think there may have been some surprise on the part of (INAUDIBLE), had worked with him, in fact, traveled to Pakistan about every three months during the old Soviet war for my job at the Department of Defense.

So I think he was looking for a friendly conversation with a friend of Pakistan and he got a very straightforward conversation by someone who had seen that the world had changed on 9/11.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: Reynolds Wolf tracking the possibility of some severe weather today from the CNN weather center.

Hi, Reynolds.

REYNOLDS WOLF, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Hey, Tony.

(WEATHER REPORT)

HARRIS: There may be two more deaths linked to E. coli in spinach. Health officials say they're investigating the death of a Maryland woman who was infected with E. coli.

And in Idaho, the focus is on the little boy. Two-year-old Kyle Algood died at this Utah hospital this week. He had kidney complications, a common symptom of E. coli poisoning. Friends say the boy got sick after he drank a smoothie with blended spinach. Test results are expected next week.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. CHRISTINE HAHN, IDAHO DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH: We're investigating a report that he may have consumed spinach in the days -- fresh spinach in the days prior to becoming ill. So we are investigating to see whether he may be related to this nationwide outbreak related to fresh bagged spinach.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEFF ALGOOD, KYLE'S FATHER: That's what we suspect it is. He ate spinach, what we thought was kind of bad spinach. And so we didn't use anymore after that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have been through all the ranges of emotion, the grief, the sadness, the guilt. Some anger.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: One death has been linked to the tainted spinach, 157 other people across 23 states have gotten sick. Federal health investigators are trying to pinpoint the source. They're zeroing in on several California farms. For now, consumers are being warned to avoid all fresh spinach.

Allies in the war on terror, but can the U.S. really trust Pakistan? The hunt for Osama bin Laden continues in the "NEWSROOM" at the top of the hour.

YOUR WORLD TODAY continues after a quick break.

I'm Tony Harris.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CLANCY: Hello, everyone, and welcome back to YOUR WORLD TODAY. I'm Jim Clancy.

GORANI: I'm Hala Gorani. Here are the top stories we're following for you.

Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah told a rally of hundreds of thousands of supporters that Lebanon needs a new government. He also said Hezbollah still has more than 20,000 rockets at its disposal. The event coincides with the final withdrawal of Israeli troops from southern Lebanon. But Israel says the pullout may take a few more days.

CLANCY: U.S. President George W. Bush and Pakistan's leader, Pervez Musharraf, side-stepped some controversial issues at the White House this day. Mr. Musharraf would not comment on reports that in an upcoming interview, he says his country was coerced by the U.S. to join the war on terror. He cited a book contract as his reason for silence today.

GORANI: A showdown between the U.S. president and three senators and his own Republican party is over. They've reached agreement on the procedures for interrogating and trying terrorism suspects. In doing so, the White House dropped its attempt to redefine parts of the Geneva Conventions.

CLANCY: It is the controversy that refuses to go away, Muslim anger over the Pope Benedict XVI's quotation from a medieval text that is critical of Islamic's Prophet Mohammed. The pope said he was sorry for the reaction to that comment, but Muslims are demanding more than that.

Alessio Vinci joins us now with more on the efforts and the response. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALESSIO VINCI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): No matter how often Pope Benedict XVI offers his apologies, it seems "I'm sorry" just isn't enough. Thousands of protesters took to the streets outside the Al Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem Friday. And in Kashmir, hundreds marched through the streets of Strengagar (ph) after the traditional Friday prayers, chanting "Hang the Pope."

The chief cleric of the Jamiya (ph) Mosque says, "We strongly condemn whatever the pope has said. He has apologized, but we demand he should take back whatever he has said in his statement."

And about 1,000 clerics and religious scholars join together in a statement, demanding the Catholic Church remove Pope Benedict from office. But for all the criticism from Islamic extremists, more moderate Muslim leaders say they have accepted the pope's words of regret.

Here in Rome, in Europe's largest mosque, as the faithful worship on this first day of Ramadan, one Muslim leader says he believes some good may come out of this controversy.

Abdullah Radwan (ph) has said, "We have closed the door on this. The pope has apologized." But, he said, "this could open the door to meaningful dialogue between religious leaders."

And the faithful who come to St. Peter's Square hoping to catch a glimpse of the holy father say it's time to move on.

GARRY COX, AMERICAN TOURIST: I think what he said has been enough, yes. I think was a -- not an indication as to how he felt at all. I think it was a matter of quoting from a text. And he's made that clear and has apologized, so I think that's sufficient.

VINCI: It's true that the pope has taken unprecedented steps to try to quell the anger over his words. He has already apologized three times, and the pope's apology was even printed in Arabic on the front page of the Vatican newspaper. And the pope is about to go one step further.

(on camera): In yet another attempt to reach out to the Muslim community, the pope has invited to his summer residence all of the Muslim ambassadors accredited to the Vatican, as well as key representatives of the Muslim communities here in Italy. The purpose of the gathering, Vatican officials say, is to relaunch a dialogue with Islam. The meeting is expected to take place on Monday morning.

(voice-over): Security at the Vatican has been beefed up in light of the outrage over the pope's speech. But Benedict has gone out of his way to show that he is not afraid, even taking a spin around St. Peter's Square on Wednesday in an open-top pope mobile.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VINCI: There is one aspect, however, of this controversy the Vatican has failed to explain, Jim, and that is, in his apology, the pope says the medieval quote describing Muslim as "violent and inhuman" does not represent his views. Then you would ask, why did he use it in the first place? We asked this question several times to Vatican officials, and their answer is, no comment. And is certainly a question that Muslim leaders on Monday morning will be asking about, to the pope -- Jim.

CLANCY: Alessio, when we look at the overall problem, I think a lot of people say, why not apologize and move on? What's preventing the Vatican from just saying, look, we're sorry, we shouldn't have used that quote at all?

VINCI: Well there are certain Vatican officials who -- off the record and trying to protect their names -- are saying that yes, the pope was clumsy perhaps and he should not have used that specific quote. At the same time, in the eyes of the Vatican, the pope has apologized, has done enough in order to quell this controversy.

And some people would say, you know, on certain issues, the pope is considered infallible. His views are considered infallible. It is not the case in this particular issue. Usually, the pope's infallibility applies to issues of dogma. But so it is possible for some Catholics and Christians in general to think the pope can simply go out there and say, I am sorry, I made a mistake. It is not like the pope.

CLANCY: All right, Alessio Vinci reporting to us there from Rome. Alessio, thank you -- Hala.

GORANI: Fiery rhetoric, controversial speeches. This session of the United Nations General Assembly meeting has been anything but staid and diplomatic so far. More world leaders and top diplomats are speaking today. Well, there are their speeches just as colorful?

Senior U.N. correspondent Richard Roth joins us now live from the United Nations.

Hi, Richard.

RICHARD ROTH, CNN SR. U.N. CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Hala.

Well, one of the speakers this morning, Jalal Talabani, the president of beleaguered Iraq. And he was here to talk to delegates about the state of his country. He's still appealing for help, but also congratulating and thanking President George Bush for his leadership and assistance for the Iraqi people.

The president of Iraq said his government will not discuss a timetable for withdrawing United States-led forces until his Iraqi armed forces are ready to help in ending terrorism and maintaining security. The president said that neighboring countries and factions are responsible for some of the violence.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JALAL TALABANI, IRAQI PRESIDENT (through translator): We must emphasize that the forces of extremism, those that oppose democracy and human values, are intent on making Iraq a stepping stone for reaching other goals for even more destruction. They are comprised of regional and Arab elements that export their crises outside their borders in the hope of making Iraq fertile ground for resolving those crises and to fight their battles in Iraq's territory and amongst the people of my country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROTH: The United States ambassador to Iraq was also here. And while the president of Iraq didn't name names of any countries, he did.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ZALMAY KHALILZAD, US. AMBASSADOR TO IRAQ: What the United States and the Iraqi government object to is interference in Iraqi affairs -- providing arms, money and resources to militias and other unauthorized groups. And that has been a subject of concern that has been raised with the Iranians by the Iraqi authorities, and we have spoken about that publicly, as well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROTH: Talabani said when the Iraqi forces are able to meet the necessary requirements to take over, they will gradually replace coalition forces. And, Hala, U.S. general in charge of Baghdad says he wants more Iraqi troops to come down there to Baghdad. The problem is, they don't want to leave their own regions, he told defense department reporters today.

GORANI: OK, Richard Roth, thanks very much -- Jim.

CLANCY: Well, speaking of colorful, Venezuelan leader Hugo Chavez has been grabbing attention on the world stage with some of his very personal remarks that targeted the U.S. president. But behind the heated rhetoric lies a deep-rooted fear of the U.S. military and its economic power, the U.S. economic power.

Karl Penhaul has more on that from Caracas.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They may be past their prime, but their spirits are unbowed.

"Let them try and invade. They'll see Venezuelans are not cowards."

"Free motherland or death," this man chants. These are part-time volunteers in Venezuelas recently formed citizen militias. Thousands of Venezuelan civilians are training in guerrilla warfare, as President Hugo Chavez raises fears of a potential U.S. invasion.

When Chavez puts forward the hypothesis of an asymmetrical war with the United States, he's saying he'll fight an irregular war, without rules and limits, he says.

Chavez is stockpiling new weaponry for his regular army. including 100,000 Kalashnikov assault rifles, which he began handing out in this ceremony in July.

"With this we're battling the intentions of the United States government. I keep warning the United States, you cannot crush our freedom," Chavez said.

He also warned the U.S. at a summit in Paraguay in April that it would never get its hands on Venezuela's oil.

"If they attack us, then we'll do what the Iraqis did. We'll have no alternative. We'll blow up our oil wells, but they're not going to take our oil," Chavez says.

He believes a U.S. invasion would aim to stop his leftist crusade against globalization and cut his alliance with Cuba's Fidel Castro. U.S. diplomats say that's nonsense.

"We never have and never will invade Venezuela, it just doesn't make any sense," Ambassador William Brownfield said in a statement to CNN.

But in the slums that ring Caracas, invasion paranoia is running high amongst dirt-poor Chavez supporters. This community leader, known by the nickname "Mao," is helping draw up a battle plan.

"We can easily dig a trench here and fill it with homemade mines and that will stop the advance of invading tanks," he explains.

Drawing on lessons he learned as a former communist guerrilla, he warns invading troops would quickly get bogged down in this rabid (INAUDIBLE) of alleys.

"If U.S. Marines come down here, then it will cost them dearly because our people will throw down boiling water and rocks," he says. Mao vows every apartment block and alley would become a battleground.

"Everybody down to the children and women have a role to play in the armed resistance movement," he says.

Fighting talk or maybe just imagination.

Karl Penhaul, CNN, Caracas.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CLANCY: Still ahead, he gave the organization a billion dollars in 1997.

GORANI: So you might assume that CNN founder Ted Turner has some ideas about reform at the United Nations. He shares some of those with us, when YOUR WORLD TODAY continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GORANI: Welcome back. We're seen live in more than 200 countries across the globe. This is YOUR WORLD TODAY on CNN international.

Now as the United Nations General Assembly wraps up in New York, I took the opportunity to talk to CNN founder and philanthropist Ted Turner. Turner famously pledged $1 billion to the U.N. almost a decade ago. Some $600 million of that has been given to the U.N.

Well. I started by asking him, then if the United Nations has come under criticism of course over the last few years, was still today a viable institution.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TED TURNER: Where would we be without the U.N.? For one thing, we'd be still fighting Hezbollah, and Israel would still be fighting over in Lebanon and Israel. Without the United Nations that conflict would not have been brought to a conclusion. And that's just happened in the last month.

The U.N. is doing remarkable work all over the world. But in a free country and in a free world, criticism is allowed.

GORANI: What do you make of Kofi Annan's legacy? This is going to be his last U.N. General Assembly. Looking back, when historians look back and what he's accomplished -- and he's come also under criticism -- what do you think his legacy will be?

TURNER: Well, from my standpoint, I think Kofi Annan's done a remarkable job and a very good one. He got long-due reform going at the United Nations, and he's been a great global leader, and just in the last month, he was the pointman in getting this terrible conflict in Lebanon and northern Israel resolved.

GORANI: As for the U.N. General Assembly, it's always been this platform for world leaders, whether they're considered controversial or not, to air their grievances and opinions. And we had a very colorful speech from Hugo Chavez, the president of Venezuela, calling George Bush the devil, and saying the podium still smelled of sulfur. What did you make of that?

TURNER: Well, I like to think when Khrushchev was just really angry. You remember, several years back, he was president of the Soviet Union, he took his shoe off and hit the table repeatedly he was so angry, but he didn't order the bombs to fall. It gives people a chance to let off steam, and at least we get to hear how people feel about things in the world. It's not just the United States. But there are lots of other controversial things that are going on in the world.

And you know, we've always believed in freedom and speech and democracy, and this is democracy at work.

GORANI: What could be improved, though, at the U.N.? you're a champion of the U.N. You've donated, or pledged, about $1 billion about nine years ago. What could be improved?

TURNER: Well, a lot of things could be improved. I certainly -- our federal government could be improved. Our state governments could be improved. Even CNN could be improved.

GORANI: No, that's not possible. But specifically what, though, Ted Turner, at the U.N.?

TURNER: I'm...

GORANI: Specifically what do you think would mean changing or reforming at the U.N.?

TURNER: Well, I think the Security Council, being made up with the five victors of World War II, I think, you know, that happened 60 years ago and it's time to move on, and I think that we ought to allow more members and better representation on the Security Council than just the five countries that got their seats on the Security Council at the end of World War II.

GORANI: You said something this week that really made headlines -- you said Iraq is one of the dumbest moves ever made.

TURNER: Not Iraq -- the war...

GORANI: The war, yes. Not the creation of the country.

TURNER: Iraq's a nice place. If you leave them alone, they do quite well.

GORANI: Now -- yes, but the war. But what then, having said that, what should be done now, do you think?

TURNER: Well, I think that we should do everything we can, as we're trying to do, to leave Iraq as soon as possible. And we wouldn't feel very good if Iraq soldiers were occupying the United States.

GORANI: But if you leave the country now, then ...

TURNER: I didn't say now. I said as soon as we can.

GORANI: And when would that be do you think?

TURNER: I'm not -- well, at least the day after tomorrow.

GORANI: OK. Now, another quick question there. You're the philanthropist -- as we mentioned there, $1 billion to the U.N. This week, Richard Branson has pledged $3 billion to fight and combat global warming. What did you make of that move?

TURNER: Well, think it's -- first of all, he's not making a philanthropic gift. He's going to make an investment in alternate energy, and I'm trying to make an investment in alternate energy myself. I think that's going to be the next great thing. Richard is doing good and I applaud him for what he's doing. I'm so proud of him.

But he's going to make more money off of this investment that he's going to make in alternate energy than he's made so far. Bill Gates and Warren Buffett are going to have to look out because Branson probably will end up the richest man in the world.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GORANI: All right, Ted Turner speaking to me there from New York a bit earlier.

CLANCY: One of most controversial men in the world, and also one of the world's great visionaries. Well, speaking of vision, "World Sport" is up next here on YOUR WORLD TODAY.

GORANI: What a segue. Well, recent history is on Europe's side at golf's Ryder Cup where the hosts are seeking a string of victories over the USA. Stay with us.

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CLANCY: All right, time for a quick look at sports now. And we're going to talk about the Ryder Cup team golf. It's tournament time. They've teed up at the K Club in Ireland early on Friday.

GORANI: Right, and Terry Baddoo joins us now with the latest on that and what to expect as well.

Hi, Terry.

TERRY BADDOO, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: Hi.

Day one of the three-day Ryder Cup began with the four balls and started in promising fashion for the USA with Tiger Woods and Jim Furyk beating Colin Montgomerie and Padraig Harrington one up, despite Tiger hitting his first shot into the water.

Europe leveled in the second match, though, and Northern Ireland's Darren Clarke, who's playing just weeks after the death of his wife, partnered Lee Westwood to one-up victory over Phil Mickelson and Chris DiMarco.

And by lunchtime, Europe led two-and-a-half to one-and-a-half, heading into the afternoon four balls, where it's all square in three matches and Europe leads in the other. And that's a very quick look at how it looks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DARREN CLARKE, PROFESSIONAL GOLFER: ...on the first two this morning as I was going to be. The reception is something that I'll never, ever forget that the crowds give me. And, indeed, Lee and, you know, Phil Mickelson and Chris DiMarco as well gave me hugs in the first tee. And it was a very, very special moment, very touching.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BADDOO: And that's how it looks at the K Club. Back to you on the news desk.

CLANCY: Well, how does it look actually out on the course? We thought President Bush was at the White House with President Musharraf today. I find out President Bush is reported to be there at the K Club in the gallery.

GORANI: He's in two places at once.

BADDOO: Yes, it's a little joke, because it's George Bush, Sr. is there at the K Club. Apparently, he's a big golf fan, and was actually not a bad player in his heyday, though he admits at the age of 82, he doesn't play as much and his handicap is sky high.

He did say that his son would like to play more than he does, but George W. doesn't think it would be seemly to be seen out on the golf course too much with the war on terror still raging, especially with the American media watching him so closely. Probably a good call there. Back to you.

CLANCY: Probably an excellent call. Terry Baddoo, as always, thank you for that.

That has to be it for this hour.

GORANI: All right. This has been YOUR WORLD TODAY. "CNN NEWSROOM" is up next for our viewers in the United States.

CLANCY: And for viewers elsewhere, YOUR WORLD TODAY continues with a closer look at the 14 men the U.S. government considers the most notorious terrorists ever caught.

GORANI: Who are they? What drives them? That and much more after this.

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