Return to Transcripts main page

Your World Today

Iraq Study Group Meets With President Bush; Iraqi Prime Minister Pledges to Reshuffle Cabinet

Aired November 13, 2006 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: There is agreement on the need for change in Iraq, but how to get there, well, that's another matter. U.S. policymakers meet with the Iraq Study Group.
HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: While fighting political turmoil within, the Lebanese seek the help of an international tribunal and the assassination of their former prime minister.

HOLMES: It's only steps from the site of that famous "I Have a Dream" speech. The memorial to a U.S. civil rights leader is now a reality.

GORANI: And for a booming economy, it was a matter of time. And saving time is one reason why a food trend is catching on in China.

It's noon in Washington, 7:00 p.m. in Beirut.

Hello and welcome. I'm Hala Gorani.

HOLMES: And I'm Michael Holmes.

This is YOUR WORLD TODAY.

GORANI: Well, events in the Middle East top the White House agenda today. President George Bush heard from the Iraq Study Group, which seeks a fresh game plan on a future course for that country.

And the Israeli prime minister, Ehud Olmert, is in Washington today. Iran's nuclear ambitions are a top priority as he meets Mr. Bush there.

Kathleen Koch joins us now live from the White House on both those, first the Iraq Study Group.

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Hala.

The president met for about an hour and a half with members of the Iraq Study Group. Press Secretary Tony Snow describing the meeting between the group headed by former secretary of state James Baker, former Democratic congressman Lee Hamilton, as deposition -- as not a deposition but a discussion. He said, "It's a conversation where both sides are going to be sharing views and thoughts."

Now, Snow was very clear on the fact that there would not be any presentations of these alternative strategies that are being eyed by the members of the Iraq Study Group, new ways to move forward in Iraq. Snow saying this group is independent, has to stay independent, a discussion like that would be inappropriate. But he was very firm on the point that he did believe that there were things that -- fact- based items about facts on the ground in Iraq that could be discussed and analytical views that they could share.

The administration is also being very careful to downplay expectations that this will be -- the group's report when it comes out in December won't be a kind of a cure-all, give the president or the country a quick way out of Iraq. It is, however, being seen very much as a framework, sort of a starting point not only for the White House, but Democrats and Republicans in Congress when it comes to a way forward in Iraq.

Now, the Iraq Study Group, Hala, is going to be spending basically the day here at the White House, meeting with the president's security team, press secretary -- excuse me -- national security team. Again, Condoleezza Rice; Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld; National Intelligence Director John Negroponte; CIA Director George Michael Hayden; General George Casey, the top U.S. commander in Iraq. So going to be very busy here.

Also, they will be having a video conference tomorrow with British prime minister Tony Blair. The White House turning down Blair's suggestions, rejecting them, that Iran and Syria be brought into the discussions about how to move forward in Iraq -- Hala.

GORANI: All right. And the Olmert-Bush meeting today, what can you tell us about that? They're going to focus on Iran. This is a matter of concern for both countries.

KOCH: Certainly a matter of concern for both countries. But again, Iran's nuclear ambitions in particular of great concern to Israel.

The men began meeting in the 11:00 hour. They're going to be having a working lunch as well. And difficult time for them to meet. This is their first meeting in six months.

Both men struggling politically. Both men facing very low numbers in the polls, low approval ratings. Obviously, though, besides Iran, they are going to be talking about Middle East peace, the way forward with the Palestinians, the roadmap to peace that President Bush has been pushing throughout his administration, and also the situation in Lebanon -- Hala.

GORANI: OK. Kathleen Koch at the White House -- Michael.

KOCH: You bet.

HOLMES: All right, Hala. Thanks for that.

A potential course correction out of London as well. British Prime Minister Tony Blair will give a speech a little later calling for Iran and Syria to assist in halting the violence in Iraq. The Australian prime minister, John Howard, for his part, says he agrees with that idea. Both leaders would like to see a broader strategy for the region, including addressing the conflict between the Israelis, Hezbollah, and the Palestinians. Previously, Mr. Bush and Mr. Blair have rejected calls for other regional powers to get involved in Iraq.

GORANI: Well, last week's shift of power in the United States now has Iran chiming in on calls for policy change in the approach to the Iraq conflict. A spokesman for the Iranian government says Iran and Syria must be involved in a resolution of Iraq's security issues.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GHOLAM HOSSEIN ELHAM, IRANIAN GOVERNMENT SPOKESMAN (through translator): America has no other choice but to make 180-degree change to its policies. Otherwise, it would be obliged to do so. It means the will of nations and the developments in the countries would get their governors to give in to following the just, humanitarian and correct principles of ruling people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GORANI: Well, we're hearing Tony Blair potentially asked for it in a foreign policy speech, the Australian prime minister. The Iranian spokesman says Iran is ready to consider any official U.S. request to hold talks on Iraq -- Michael.

HOLMES: We shall see.

At least 10 people are dead, meanwhile, 17 wounded after a suicide bombing on a bus in Baghdad on Sunday. Suicide bombers targeted police recruits in the capital. They killed nearly three dozen people.

Now, under pressure to stop the cycle of violence, the Iraqi prime minister, Nouri al-Maliki, is pledging again another major cabinet shakeup.

Arwa Damon joins us now from Baghdad with the latest.

Here we go again, Arwa.

ARWA DAMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Michael.

We have heard the prime minister put forward plans on a number of occasions. None of them have quite resulted in what he is looking for in terms of trying to curb or even bring down the violence here.

Yesterday, we heard him in parliament asking political parties asking for permission to change up, to shake up his cabinet. He is making the argument that this cabinet was not one that he selected. There are not -- some individuals, some ministers are not people that he can work with.

We are hearing from his national security advisor, Mowaffak al- Rubaie, that the prime minister feels that some of these ministers aren't quite on the same page when it comes to his national reconciliation plan. Now he is asking for permission to shake up the cabinet.

This comes as a lot of people, both senior military and politicians, are looking for a different approach to Iraq. The violence here really is reaching such levels, the Iraqi people are living in such a state of despair. They really are seeing no hope.

This could be the prime minister's way to try to bring control to the country. Although some Sunni politicians have said -- some Sunni members of parliament are saying that just changing up the ministers is not really going to solve the problems here. It is such a complex scenario.

We're talking the government has to deal with the militias, it has to deal with corruption. It has to address so many different issues for it to really be able to bring the violence under control.

And earlier today, we also saw the prime minister meeting with General Abizaid, chief of CENTCOM, Central Command, here in the Middle East. They also discussed a number of issues. Among those, of course, topping that agenda was security -- Michael.

HOLMES: A couple of things. I suppose it's been a long time since the Iraqi people did have any sense of hope. But when it comes to the shakeup, first of all, their reaction to it? And also, the violence that has come at the same time as the shakeup?

DAMON: Well, Michael, the violence here -- and you've seen it yourself on a number of times when you've been in Iraq -- the violence is just this daily cycle that Iraqis live with. Whether it's a day like today, where a suicide bomber boarded a bus, detonated his explosives and killed 10 Iraqis, or a day like yesterday, where twin suicide bombers attacked a group of police recruits, killing at least 35, this is what Iraqis have been living with for the least three years.

In terms of reaction to the prime minister's proposed shakeup, for your average Iraqi they have heard their government putting forward so many proposals. They are not going to react, they're not going to become hopeful until they really see a decrease in violence, a decrease in their inability to really go out and live their lives.

When you speak with Shia politicians and Sunni politicians, they're welcoming the change. The Shias view it as being -- as al- Maliki putting his stamp on the government here. The Sunnis, though, are skeptical of these changes that might be happening -- Michael.

HOLMES: All right. As always, Arwa, thank you very much for that.

Arwa Damon in Baghdad.

GORANI: All right. A look at other stories in the news this hour.

The U.S. conduct of the war on Iraq is drawing new legal scrutiny. HOLMES: Indeed. And the outgoing U.S. defense secretary is at the center of it.

A German prosecutor is being urged to file criminal charges against departing U.S. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld and other U.S. officials. The U.S.-based Center for Constitutional Rights wants Germany to take up the case under its universal jurisdiction law. The center cites abuses by U.S. troops at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison and the treatment of detainees at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba.

GORANI: Also in the headlines, in Bangladesh a second straight day of street protests. You can see it there, some chaos out there, demanding the resignation of election officials. An opposition alliance says the officials are favoring the incumbent prime minister in the run-up to some elections in January over in Bangladesh. Protesters say one person was killed, 50 wounded, in the capital, Dhaka.

HOLMES: A judge in Malawi will rule next week on a league challenge to Madonna's interim adoption of that baby boy. The lawsuit was filed by more than 60 activist groups, including the state-run Malawi human rights commission. The groups believe the adoption proceedings have been, in their words, irregular.

GORANI: We're going to take a short break on YOUR WORLD TODAY.

When we come back, Lebanon is struggling with the resignation of several cabinet members.

HOLMES: Coming up, the nation is also trying to find resolution in the assassination of its former prime minister.

GORANI: And in Washington, a tribute to a icon of the nation's civil rights movement.

Stay with YOUR WORLD TODAY.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: All right. As we reported a little earlier, the Israeli prime minister, Ehud Olmert, is in Washington meeting with U.S. President George W. Bush at the White House.

Here is part of what they had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: Mr. President, incoming Senate Democratic leaders have called for a phased withdrawal of troops from Iraq. You met this morning with the Baker commission. Would you accept any solution that included a timetable? And what options did you discuss this morning with the Baker commission?

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Tom, I'm not going to prejudge the Baker commission's report. I was pleased to meet with them. I was impressed by the quality of the -- of their membership. I was impressed by the questions they asked.

They are -- they want us to succeed in Iraq, just like I want to succeed. And so we had a really good discussion.

I'm not sure what the report is going to say. I'm looking forward to seeing it. I believe this: I believe that it's important for us to succeed in Iraq, not only for our security, but for the security of the Middle East, and that I'm looking forward to interesting ideas.

In the meantime, General Pete Pace is leading investigations within the Pentagon as to how to reach our goal, which is success -- a government which can sustain, govern, and defend itself, and will serve as an ally in this war on terror. I believe that it's very important, though, for people making suggestions to recognize that the best military options depend on the conditions on the ground.

So it's an interesting period here in Washington, Mr. Prime Minister. You might realize the opposition party won -- won the Senate and the House. And what's interesting is, is that they're beginning to understand that with victory comes responsibilities. And I'm looking forward to working with the Democrats to achieve common objectives.

QUESTION: Mr. President, do you see any change in the administration's position regarding Syria? Do you support the resumption of Israeli-Syrian negotiations?

And the same question to the prime minister, if I may. In the past, you rejected a resumption of the Syrian and Israeli negotiations under -- one of the reasons was the rejection of the American administration regarding the policies of Syria.

Do you see now after you discussed this matter with the president any change in your position regarding Syria?

BUSH: My answer to your question is, Prime Minister Olmert knows how to run his own foreign policy. And he can figure out -- he can figure out his policy towards -- my policy towards Syria is this: that we expect the Syrians to be, one, out of Lebanon so that the Lebanese democracy can exist. Two, not harboring extremists that create -- that empower these radicals to stop the advance of democracies. Three, to help this young democracy in Iraq succeed.

And the Syrian president knows my position. We have told that to him through my administration.

We do have an embassy there in Syria. But our position is very clear. And we would like to see some progress toward peace from the Syrians.

EHUD OLMERT, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: I share the same opinion with President Bush. We're not against negotiations with Syria. We would love to be able to have negotiations with Syria, but that must be based on a certain reasonable, responsible policy which is not performed by Syria for the time being.

Everything that they are doing is to the other direction -- in Lebanon, in Iraq, and a sponsorship of Hamas and (INAUDIBLE) as the main perpetrators of terror against the state of Israel. With some changes in the Russian -- I'm sorry, in the Syrian etiquette on these major issues, I hope that one day the conditions for contact between them and us will be created. But to be honest, I don't think at the present time they manifest any such attitude, and that makes it impossible.

BUSH: Matt.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, Tony Blair is calling for a reaching out to both Syria and Iran to help calm the situation in Iraq. What is your response to that?

BUSH: I haven't seen his comments, but you just heard my response on Syria. And my comments on Iran is this: If the Iranians want to have a dialogue with us, we have -- we have shown them a way forward, and that is for them to verifiably suspend their enrichment activities.

We put that proposal on the table a while back. We said that if you want to have a dialogue with us, we're willing to come to the table with the EU, as well as Russia and China, to discuss a way forward, but first you must verifiably suspend your enrichment activities.

Our focus of this administration is to convince the Iranians to give up its nuclear weapons ambitions. And that focus is based upon our strong desire for there to be peace in the Middle East. And an Iran with a nuclear weapon would be a destabilizing influence.

And so we have made it very clear, our position with regards to Iran. And it hasn't changed.

QUESTION: Mr. President, do you think that it's better to impose sanctions on Iran or to handle (ph) direct dialogue with them?

BUSH: I think it's very important for the world to unite with one common voice, to say to the Iranians that if you choose to continue forward, you'll be isolated. And one -- one source of isolation would be economic isolation.

In other words, there has to be a consequence for their (INAUDIBLE). They have -- we went to the United Nations. We've made it very clear -- we being a lot of the world -- have made it clear that the Iranian nuclear weapons ambitions are not in the world's interests. And therefore, if they continue to move forward with the program, there has to be a consequence.

And a good place to start is working together to isolate the country. And my hope is, is that there are rational people inside the government that recognize isolation is not in their country's interest. And I also, when I speak about Iran, speak about a government, not about the Iranian people. I believe the Iranian people want a better way forward. I don't think they want to confront the world. I believe they need -- you know, I believe they could benefit by more trade and more openness with the world.

But their leaders have to make the decision. And the decision is abundantly clear to them.

And I say this in the interest of world peace, that if Iran has a nuclear weapon, it will be incredibly destabilizing and obviously threatening to our strong ally. And so my attitude is, let's work in concert to convince the government that it's not just the Israeli voices speaking or the United States voices speaking, but there's a lot of other voices saying the exact same thing, and present them with a choice.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you all.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thanks, everybody.

BUSH: Wait a minute. It seems a little unfair. He's got a strong -- he's got a answer coming. I can feel it.

OLMERT: She said it in Hebrew, and you can't blame him. He didn't understand the Hebrew part of the question.

I'll answer in Hebrew for the Israel...

BUSH: Sure.

OLMERT: (SPEAKING HEBREW)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Ehud Olmert there with U.S. President George W. Bush at the White House following their meeting. A couple of -- making a couple of points.

The U.S. president saying that if Iran wants to talk with the U.S. about Iraq, for that matter, it has to verifiably show that it is not going ahead with uranium enrichment programs, putting in that condition.

GORANI: And if it -- if it doesn't do that, the president said, then Iran should face economic isolation.

The U.S. president there hosting the Israeli prime minister, Ehud Olmert, at the White House today.

HOLMES: All right. We'll leave it there.

We're going to take a short break now, be right back on YOUR WORLD TODAY.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: And hello, everyone. I'm Tony Harris at the CNN Center in Atlanta.

More of YOUR WORLD TODAY in just a few minutes. But first, a check on stories making headlines in the United States.

It is back to work for Congress. There is a lot of unfinished business in these, the final weeks of Republican control, including spending bills, trade packs and bioterrorism legislation. The focus is also on the shift of power to Democrats. Senator Carl Levin, the incoming chairman of the Armed Services Committee, outlined Democratic priorities.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CARL LEVIN (D), MICHIGAN: The first priority would be to find a way forward to change the course in Iraq. That's the message that came through so clearly and powerfully last Tuesday from the American people. Most Democrats share the view that we should pressure the White House to commence the phased redeployment of U.S. troops from Iraq in four to six months, to begin that phased redeployment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: A historic ceremony in Washington. A memorial honoring slain civil rights leader, the Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., is going up on the National Mall.

President Bush, former president Bill Clinton, civil rights leaders, members of Congress and celebrities were among those attending the groundbreaking. The memorial will be the first on the mall to honor an African-American.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OPRAH WINFREY, TALK SHOW HOST: Martin Luther King Jr. was a quintessential American, yes. But even more importantly, perhaps, he was a quintessential human being. Where he saw America off track, he saw us off track not just in our politics, but also in our humanity.

We needed, he said, not merely a quantitative change in our circumstances, but a qualitative change in our souls. And it is time, he said, to inject a new dimension of love into the veins of human civilization.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: The monument will be built near hallowed ground, the two civil rights leaders, not far from the site of where King delivered his "I Have a Dream" speech in 1963.

Crews working to rein in a wildfire in southern California. This one near Lake Elsinore, about 75 miles east of Los Angeles. So far, about 300 acres have burned.

Crews say the wildfire is about 30 percent contained. It's burning just about 40 miles from last month's deadly arson fire near Palm Springs. Five firefighters were killed in that blaze.

In Oregon, it's strong winds that are causing major problems. High winds downed trees and power lines, knocking out power to some 65,000 homes and businesses. In the Portland area, wind gusts more than 80 miles an hour reported -- 80 miles an hour in some areas.

One road was blocked this morning by more than 100 trees. At last report, power has been restored to all but 18,0=00 customers.

Let's get a check of weather conditions in the West and along the East Coast, where conditions are causing some major air traffic delays.

Jacqui Jeras is in the weather center.

Hi, Jacqui.

JACQUI JERAS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Hey, Tony.

(WEATHER REPORT)

HARRIS: A man convicted three times of drunken driving blamed now for a head-on collision that killed five family members. The driver was heading the wrong way on a New Mexico highway when he hit the family's minivan. They were on their way home from a soccer game.

One member of the family, 15-year-old Arisa Garcia (ph), survived. Police say the man's blood alcohol was four times the legal limit at the time of the accident. He died in the hospital.

Likely House speaker Nancy Pelosi among the targets of a California man. He's expected in court today, suspected of sending threatening letters laced with a white powder. Thirty-nine-year-old Chad Castajena (ph) is also accused of sending similar letters to entertainers David Letterman and Jon Stewart. The powder in the envelopes wasn't harmful.

Mama's not happy. A new survey says many middle-aged women are stressing out over aging parents and other family members.

"USA Today" reports on the poll by Pursuant, Inc. Women between the ages of 35 and 54 were asked if they were very happy. Just one in five said they were. That compares with about a third of the general population from an earlier poll.

Just steps from the spot where he delivered his most famous speech, Martin Luther King Jr. is now permanently memorialized in the capital. We will hear from some of the prominent leaders who were there for the dedication today, including Oprah Winfrey and Barack Obama.

That's at the top of the hour in the "NEWSROOM" with Kyra Phillips and Don Lemon.

Meantime, YOUR WORLD TODAY continues after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

GORANI: The Bush administration is looking for new ideas, and a fresh approach on the war in Iraq. To that end, President Bush is meeting with a bipartisan panel of cabinet makers, lawmakers, presidential adviser, collectively known as the Iraq Study Group.

Let's turn to Michael Holmes for more on this in our Focus segment -- Michael.

HOLMES: All right, Hala. Thanks very much for that. Well, the Iraq Study Group, as it's called, is looking for alternatives to what many now consider to be a full-scale civil war brewing in Iraq, but there are many ideas floating around Washington, especially from the Democrats, who are, as we know, set to take over the majority in Congress.

Well, one idea getting a lot of attention is talking to Iran and Syria as part of international dialogue on ways to improve the overall situation in Iraq. Also shifting the U.S. military focus on security and urban areas to more of an advisory role than what we see there.

Now changing the show, the massive show of U.S. military force to a smaller, quicker reaction force is also an option. Also, providing more oversight of the Iraqi construction effort, which many feel has fallen well short of where it should be.

But when it comes to U.S. troops in Iraq, top leaders in the Senate still disagree.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. HARRY REID (D), NEVADA: I said in the show here just a few minutes ago, we would have to start redeployment in the next few months. So the exact time doesn't matter. But we're going to have to do it. It's important that we get the Iraq change, the course of the war in Iraq changed as soon as possible.

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (D), ARIZONA: I believe that a withdrawal or a date for withdrawal will lead to chaos in the region, and most military experts think the same thing. I believe there are lot of things we can do to salvage this, but they all require the presence of additional troops.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: All right. For years, U.S. President Bush stuck with that, stay the course mantra when it came to Iraq. But after his party got what even he called a thumping at the ballot box, the White House now says it is ready to listen to new ideas.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSH BOLTEN, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: Nobody can be happy with the situation in Iraq right now. Everybody has been working hard, but what we've been doing has not worked well enough or fast enough. So it's clearly time to put fresh eyes on the problem.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CLANCY: Democrats have called for an international conference on Iraq and want to help -- enlist the help, rather, of Iran and other countries who have a stake in the outcome. But the White House so far is cool to that idea. Meanwhile, the leaders of both countries are talking tough on the contentious issue of Iran's nuclear ambition ambitions.

On Sunday, President Mahmoud Admadinejad criticized U.N. efforts to impose sanctions, and said, quote, "It is disgraceful that the Security Council, which should be the defender of nation's securities and rights creates cases against countries that seek to produce nuclear fuel for peaceful purposes and threatens them."

Iran is welcoming the political change on Capitol Hill, meanwhile. Relations between Tehran and Washington, it's no secret they've been very tense, but things now look a little different.

Aneesh Raman talked with Iranian citizens about their hopes for future relations with the U.S.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANEESH RAMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): It started at the end of October in the Persian Gulf with U.S.-led naval exercises aimed at stopping the smuggling of nuclear weapons. Days later, Iran responded, defensive war games were launched, three new missiles were test-fired, and tensions being Washington and Tehran seemed set to intensify.

But then something changed. The Democrats took control of Congress. It was a moment Iran's supreme leader simply could not ignore.

AYATOLLAH ALI KHAMENEI, IRANIAN SUPREME LEADER (through translator): The winning of Democrats in the U.S. elections is not solely a domestic event of America. It means the failure of pro-war and aggressive policies of the president of America.

RAMAN (on camera): You do get the sense here that tensions have simmered down just a bit. But of course, we want to find out from the people as best we can. We're going to ride one of these buses around Tehran and see what they say.

(voice over): On board, women are relegated to the back, separated by a bar. None were willing to speak with us.

But up front, Hamdi (ph) did. "Yes, of course," he told me, "the Democrats' win in the U.S. gives hope because the Republicans' confrontational policy may be pushed aside."

And along the ride even came this, a call from Babak (ph) for reconciliation between Iran and the U.S. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If they make any relationship, it means economy in Iraq is getting better and the condition for the people, it's getting better. And the people, they want -- they want to make a relationship between Iran and America.

RAMAN: It's a long shot. The U.S. still considers Iran a state sponsor of terrorism. And some analysts believe Iran could grow more, not less defiant after the Democrats' victory. It's not the talk of countries coming together, but not enough to discourage some in Tehran who right now see a chance for peace and are hoping it will pan out.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: All right, joining me now via broadband and an Iranian rain shower is Aneesh Raman. He is Tehran. A little bit wet there, Aneesh.

Interesting to hear the voices of the people there. We also heard the voice of the U.S. president earlier, saying no talking with Iran until it verifies that it's not enriching uranium. What chance of that?

RAMAN: Yes, exactly Michael. They are at an impasse, the U.S. and Iran, over the nuclear dispute. Iran has said it won't suspend as a precondition for talks. The U.S. as you mentioned, among others, says it won't talk unless Iran suspends. Where things go from there, it sort of varies by the day depending on who you talk to here. But, Iranian leaders it seems, feel that fear over a completely destabilized Iraq could be greater than the fear over a nuclear Iran. And if that is the case, that at some point the impasse will break, it's a brinkmanship that they're not going to back down from. And that at that point, the U.S. among others will directly have dialogue with Iran because of Iraq.

HOLMES: And Aneesh, tell me this. You and I know the absolute influence in some parts of Iraq that Iran has. Particularly through the Shia militias. What can Iran bring to the table were there to be a full and frank discussion involving the U.S. on Iraq? What is Iran going to be able to tell the U.S., advise the U.S., given its stake in Iraq?

RAMAN: Well, it might be in the Iranian case, an example of be careful what you wish for. As you and I know, on the ground in Iraq, many suggested that Iran is at some level destabilizing that country by supporting Shia organizations. Iran has denied it's doing anything of that sort. It's already offered money, institutional help to the fledgling Iraqi government. And so if Iran is brought in, the question is exactly as you asked -- what they could do given their denials and given that parts of the Sunni insurgency in Iraq are fighting as much against Iranian influence there as they are against the U.S. and Iraqi government. If the talks take place and Iran can't do much to change the situation, pressure come out on the nuclear front Michael.

HOLMES: All right, Aneesh Raman in Tehran. Stay dry and good to see you. Thanks Aneesh. Okay. Any plan to quell violence in Iraq may also have to involve Syria, but the Bush administration has demonized Damascus, accusing the Syrians of allowing militants and weapons to pour across its border into Iraq. Can the two nations now work together towards a more peaceful Iraq. For some answers, we're joined now live by the Syrian Ambassador to the U.S. Imad Moustapha. And Mr. Ambassador thanks for your time, once again, being here on YOUR WORLD TODAY.

Let me ask you this -- certainly, Iran and Syria have influence on what is going on in Iraq. Diplomatically and otherwise, what could Syria bring to the table if the U.S. says, OK let's sit down and talk about Iraq?

IMAD MOUSTAPHA, SYRIAN AMBASSADOR TO U.S.: Well, first, let us agree that no one, no one at all has a magical wand that can be used so that the situation will be immediately resolved in Iraq. The situation is very grave there. It's a messy situation. However, having said this, we believe it's time for the United States to show some humility and admit, even to itself, it does not have to do this publicly, but that it's policies in Iraq have dramatically failed and they need to think outside the box.

One way of thinking outside the box is trying to bring every party that can have a stake and has an interest in stabilizing the situation in Iraq. We in Syria believe that the situation there is very dangerous, is very grave, and it might have repercussions on the whole Middle East. And we would like to play a positive, constructive role towards stabilizing the situation...

HOLMES: How, how, how ambassador? How would you do that?

MOUSTAPHA: Many ways. First, we have very good relations with all Iraqi political factions across the political spectrum. We can support the political process and we can use our good office towards helping the Iraqis to find a solution to their political differences. Second, we can cooperate. We have offered before, time and again, the Iraqi authorities to cooperate with them even on security issues. It was the United States, believe it or not, who were imposing this. Now, the United States might reconsider its policies in Iraq and might actually invite not only Syria but other neighboring countries of Iraq -- Turkey, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Egypt - all countries to try to stabilize the situation there.

HOLMES. Indeed and ambassador, very little goes on in the Middle East without a quid pro quo. What would Syria want in return for coming to the table? And is Syria prepared to tighten up its borders. There's long been claims of foreign fighters coming into Iraq from your country?

MOUSTAPHA: Well, first, we are not looking for a deal. It is our own national interest. This should be clear to everybody to stabilize the situation in Iraq. It's so important to remember that in the first three years, we actually did offer the United States to help towards stabilizing the situation in Iraq. Because of the United States administration was driven by its ideological agenda about categorizing nations into evil nations and good nations and to putting somebody in the access of evil, rouge states, all this ideological, neo-conservative, policies, because of this, there was no cooperation whatsoever.

What we're not looking for a price for our cooperation. We believe that it is for Iraq's national interest, our own national interest to help in Iraq. The stakes are very high for everybody in the Middle East.

HOLMES: There's no doubt about that. I can't let you go without taking advantage of having you on and asking about Lebanon. Of course, political crisis there basically, with pro-Syrian ministers stepping out of the cabinet. The potential there for destabilization. What is Syria doing to support the Lebanese government, to keep a stable government there in Lebanon.

MOUSTAPHA: Well, the connotation of describing the ministers at pro-Syrian would normally lead to somebody else saying, well then this means that the others are pro-American. I don't think those ministers were pro-Syrian. They're Lebanese. You have to accept the fact that Hezbollah (INAUDIBLE) are part and parcel of the Lebanese political and social fabric. They only wanted to have a greater share in a national unity government. It's not a Syrian issue. We do not interfere in purely Lebanese domestic issues. This should be so clear and not trying to implicate Syria in the ongoing political problems that Lebanon is facing today.

HOLMES: Ambassador Imad Moustapha, the Syrian Ambassador to the United States. I want to thank you very much for being with us on YOUR WORLD TODAY. Let's take it back to Hala.

MOUSTAPHA: Thank you.

HOLMES: All right, let's take it back now to Hala.

GORANI: Still ahead, the march of fast food around the world, a routine part of life in the U.S., is now a fascinating novelty in China. We'll take you along for a ride. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: Welcome back, everyone, to CNN International.

GORANI: This is YOUR WORLD TODAY, we're broadcast all over the world and we bring you the most important international news stories of the hour. And we're going to go to Lebanon now and the escalating political turmoil in that country. Despite the resignation of one- fourth of its cabinet, the government is moving forward with a plan for an international tribunal to try the suspected killers of the former prime minister of that country, Rafik Hariri. All this crisis just a few months after the end of the Hezbollah/Israel war. Beirut bureau chief Brent Sadler has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRENT SADLER, CNN BEIRUT BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): Lebanon's political crisis deepened after an embattled cabinet approved a draft United Nations plan to set up an international tribunal to try suspects in the murder of former prime minister, Rafik Hariri.

Ignoring a walk out from his government by six ministers, a quarter of his cabinet, Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora chaired a special session, unanimously approving the framework of the murdered tribunal.

Eighteen ministers, an essential two thirds of the cabinet supported him. But the ministerial resignations cast a shadow over that decision. Muslim Shiites representing a third of this country are no longer represented in cabinet, a possible breach of the constitution that is supposed to ensure fair distribution of political power among Muslims and Christians.

Shrugging off a Hezbollah-led challenge, Prime Minister Siniora said Lebanon was now on the road to revealing the truth behind the Hariri murder. Earlier, top anti-Syrian political leaders led by Saad Hariri, the son of the assassinated prime minister, accused Syria and Iran of plotting to throw the government through Hezbollah and its allies in Lebanon, as a means to derail the court.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I believe they should be fair enough to say and to bring the evidence. I can accuse you of anything, but you have to bring evidence about the authenticity, the validity of your accusations. They cannot simply cast accusations against Hezbollah and say it's part of the plot by the Iranians and Syrians.

SADLER: U.N. investigators have linked Syrian officials with the Hariri killing some 20 months ago, strenuously denied by the authorities in Damascus.

(on camera): Neither the pro nor anti-Syrian camps in Lebanon are backing down in this crisis as tension on the street here rises with threats of demonstrations and counter demonstrations amid tightening security.

(voice-over): And widening division among political factions that were polarized by the country's recent Hezbollah/Israel war. Brent Sadler, CNN, Beirut.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GORANI: All right, we're going to switch gears now to something a lot lighter. And a sign of the times really in China. Combine a love of fast food and millions of cars and it's only logical you end up with lots of this.

HOLMES: Drive-thru restaurants. A common place of course in the United States and many countries around the world of course, but not so much in china. That could be changing though. Jaime FlorCruz picked up a burger.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAIME FLORCRUZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's China's latest novelty, a trip to the drive-thru. UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): I drove here during a break and I can go straight back to work. It's good to bring in advanced concepts from abroad.

FLORCRUZ: Of the nearly 800 McDonald's outlets in China, only six have drive-thrus. But the trend is catching fast.

GARY ROSEN, MCDONALD'S MARKETING EXECUTIVE: The consumers here understand it, they get it and they've moved right through it.

FLORCRUZ: The world's largest restaurant chain is betting big on China's growing middle class and the red-hot economy. With more money in their pockets, they're increasingly able to afford eating out. Racy ads like this entice many Chinese to eat fast food instead of sitting through traditional meals, which can take hours.

Young consumers especially like the restaurant's modern look and the free Internet connection. More and more urbanites are trading bikes for cars. Just last year, car sales were nearly $6 million, up 10 percent from the year before. Their new wealth is leading to a frenetic lifestyle.

(on camera): There's probably no quicker way than this to grab burgers and fries on the go, but some say the appeal of drive-thrus in China is more than just about speed and convenience.

LIU KANG, DUKE UNIVERSITY: In China, it's a completely different concept. You just want to show off how rich you are, you have a car, you can drive thru.

FLORCRUZ (voice-over): Upwardly mobile Chinese are discovering the pleasures of car ownership, including the high social status that goes with it. But while they may have more money, they have less and less time. And that's why McDonald's says more than half of its future outlets in China will have drive-thrus.

ROSEN: It is a novelty at the beginning, but what people have certainly recognized is it actually provides a solution for what they need in their busy life.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I think it's fantastic because it's convenient.

FLORCRUZ: And profitable, too. Jaime FlorCruz, CNN, Tianjin, China.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: Hundreds of people flocked to the Spanish capital for an annual protest this weekend.

GORANI: Organizers are fighting to keep one of Europe's oldest traditions from being eroded by Madrid's urban sprawl.

HOLMES: You could say they're a little sheepish, these protesters. And they followed along just like sheep. They didn't shout away banners either, they bleated. Here's Al Goodman.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AL GOODMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's getting harder every year to flock to Madrid. But this woolly herd right down to the littlest lambs still beat the odds to make the journey, backed by an entourage fit for a king. Music, dance, and pageantry, touting centuries of support for livestock heading south for the winter.

JULIO DE LA LOSA, SHEPHERD (through translator): There are still special routes to run the livestock from north to south. You can't lose that tradition.

GOODMAN: But the practice, dating back generations in his family, is going out of style. Spanish law protects 125,000 kilometers or 78,000 miles of migration routes, but sheep now must often graze in the shadow of the city.

Critics blame new roads and homes blocking historic paths. Highway construction delayed the sheep for an entire week and left them with a precarious crossing. Environmentalists say a golf course near Madrid was another violation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We cut the fence and took 2,000 sheep onto the golf course. We later won a trial and now there's a corridor for sheep at the edge of the course.

GOODMAN: The government says less than 10 percent of livestock migrating south still hoof it. Most go by truck.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): The number of animals using these historic routes is limited, but we're all interested in showing our children this tradition.

GOODMAN (on camera): The streets of Madrid are often crowded with traffic jams, but this is different. The people are mesmerized. They can't get enough of it.

(voice-over): Some wanted to be a lamb. But in the throng that took over the heart of Madrid, most just wanted to touch.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: A woolly title, that will do it for us from this hour.

GORANI: Stay with us. A lot more news ahead on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.voxant.com