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Israeli Archaeologist Uncovers Significant Find: King Herod's Tomb; Queen Elizabeth has Full Schedule on Last Day of Visit to United States; Insurgents Target Popular News Talk Radio Station

Aired May 08, 2007 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JIM CLANCY, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Ancient pieces of shattered limestone. Are they proof King Herod's tomb has been found?
ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Fresh from her White House dinner, her royal highness tours Mission Control.

CLANCY: Independent radio in Iraq under fire, but refusing to be silenced.

CHURCH: And a former U.S. president launches a major assault on the global scourge of AIDS.

CLANCY: It is 7:00 p.m. right now in the West Bank, 8:00 in the evening in Baghdad.

Hello and welcome to our repot broadcast around the globe.

I'm Jim Clancy.

CHURCH: And I'm Rosemary Church.

From Herodium to Harari, Belfast to Bangkok, wherever you're watching, this is YOUR WORLD TODAY.

We begin with a breaking story from 2,000 years ago. It could be the answer to one of the Holy Land's greatest mysteries, not to mention the end of a life-long quest by one Israeli archaeologist.

Ben Wedeman joins us now with the latest on the discovery of King Herod's tomb. Or that's what we think.

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Rosemary. Well, normally this place is obsessed with the news of the day. But today, we had a bit of a break. The big news goes back, as you said, 2,000 years.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WEDEMAN (voice over): The rock in this case is the star, fragments of what could be the most important archaeological find in the Middle East since the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls.

Archaeologist Ehud Netzer from Jerusalem's Hebrew University announces the discovery of the tomb of Herod the Great, the last Jewish king of Judea around the time of Jesus, the builder of the Second Temple. For Netzer, a life-long obsession.

EHUD NETZER, ARCHAEOLOGIST: It's a great satisfaction. I'm not sure I myself have digested it fully.

WEDEMAN: Out at the site known as Herodium, a dusty hill in the occupied West Bank, a horde of journalists tries to make sense of ancient stones.

(on camera): For three decades, Israeli archaeologists scoured this hillside looking for the tomb. Three weeks ago, they say they found proof positive.

(voice over): Proof came in the form of a few fragments of what they believe is Herod's sarcophagus.

NETZER: The stonework is amazing. It's very different from what we know at Herodium. Because of the quality, I have no doubt that this is what we were looking for.

WEDEMAN: The sarcophagus was smashed to bits by Herod's bitter foes, who regarded him as a puppet of the Roman Empire. But not everyone is convinced the evidence is sufficient to declare that this is, in fact, Herod's tomb.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And hopefully in the future, they will find fragments of monumental inscriptions that will tell us exactly who was there.

WEDEMAN: The archaeologists realize their work is far from over.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What next is uncovering the whole -- the whole structure. Hopefully it's preserved better than what we see now.

WEDEMAN: There's plenty of dust, dirt and rocks on this Hill, so, dig in, dig on.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WEDEMAN: So, there is some skepticism about this claim, but it certainly is sending lots of waves through the archaeological world -- Rosemary.

CHURCH: And Ben, as we heard there, proof positive, according to the archaeologist. And as you say, there are those who are skeptical.

How do you establish whether this is or isn't King Herod's tomb?

WEDEMAN: Well, what -- as you heard from that report, what some of the other archaeologists are hoping is that there will be some inscription, something that definitely says this is the tomb of Herod. But the archaeologists who actually did the dig say that there's all sorts of circumstantial evidence ranging from coins found on the site, from mosaics, from the carbon dating of some of the material that was found on this site that specifically dates it to the time of the death of Herod, which was in 4 AD. But nonetheless, until there's some sort of documentary evidence in stone, so to speak, that this is Herod's tomb, there is going to be some skepticism -- Rosemary.

CHURCH: Indeed. All right.

Our Ben Wedeman there with that report.

Thanks so much -- Jim.

CLANCY: Well, Rosemary, our royal coverage continues. And we should note that in earlier time, heads might have rolled. As it is, British newspapers are editorially roasting U.S. President George W. Bush for this faux pas blurted out during Queen Elizabeth's arrival at the White House on Monday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The American people are proud to welcome Your Majesty back to the United States, a nation you've come to know very well. After all, you've dined with 10 U.S. presidents. You helped our nation celebrate its bicentennial in 17 -- in 1976. She gave me a look that only a mother could give a child.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CLANCY: Now, you just don't say that to the queen, even if you are the president of the United States.

British newspapers certainly let him know it. One called him "Dumb Dubya." Another said he had a "Gift for the Gaffe". And "The Daily Mail" noted that "Winking at Her Majesty is probably not included in any book of royal etiquette."

Well, it's another full day and a full schedule for the British queen. She is concluding her state visit here, but she's getting no rest with this schedule. This hour, it's been a visit to NASA, with stops now planned at the World War II Memorial, as well as at a pediatric hospital.

Richard Quest is trying to keep up with Her Majesty, who is showing remarkable endurance.

She's got to be tiring you out with this schedule. I mean, there's quite a bit of it.

RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Ask anyone who follows the queen, and they will tell you that they are exhausted long before her majesty. She wears sensible shoes with low heels. She takes it -- you know, it's like the tortoise and the hare. The rest of us may rush around and try and get it done. She just keeps going like the Energizer Bunny at a slow pace, but she will get there, and she will finish the race long before you do.

CLANCY: Well, you know -- and you talk about gaffes. People really aren't familiar with what all of the rules are for the queen. I mean, it is complex when people try to deal with her. Is she -- can you give us any insight?

QUEST: No, it's not. Jim, it is not. It is not.

Let's scotch this nonsense for a moment. Whether it's Mickey Rooney kissing the queen's hand, or the president making an off-the- cuff remark, which, frankly, was his own fault -- he got himself into that mess, and he made a bad situation worse.

If he had just kept going, with his speech, nobody would have been any of the wiser. It was a simple off-the-cuff -- he misspoke.

But, if you run that video again, you'll see what I mean. The problem was, the president stopped. And the president stopped, and he looked at the queen. And as he looked at the queen, he gave the wink, and you hear very faintly in the background, very faintly, you hear the queen say something like, "Oh, dear."

That's when it all goes wrong. But frankly, Jim, what I can tell you, because I know, I've spoken to the palace on numerous occasions, they are not as tight as protocol breaches as everybody thinks, providing the queen isn't made to look silly -- Jim.

CLANCY: Well, she certainly hasn't looked silly. You know...

QUEST: No, and that's why the palace isn't -- doesn't care about Mickey Rooney kissing the queen's hand. They don't care about what the president said yesterday.

It was a warm, generous, kind moment. And the White House and the palace feel -- even a little mistake, it just showed the friendliness of the relationship.

CLANCY: All right. Richard Quest with enviable job of following Her Majesty, the queen, around this day, her final day of her week- long almost trip to the United States. It's been really with a lot of good things.

And Richard, you have helped us all to understand what is going on. Thanks.

QUEST: Thank you.

CHURCH: And straightened us out on some of those issues, too.

Well, they were arch enemies for decades. Many Protestants and Catholics in northern Ireland fought a bitter battle that came to be known as The Troubles. Well, today, they came together, overcame their differences, and formed a power-sharing government in Belfast.

Protestant leader Ian Paisley will serve as first minister. Martin McGuinness of Sinn Fein accepted the number two post of deputy first minister. Both men pledged cooperation and talked about the significance of this historic day.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARTIN MCGUINNESS, NORTHERN IRELAND DEPUTY FIRST MINISTER: We're going to share power. We're going to form the All Ireland Ministerial Council, which will meet probably (INAUDIBLE) before the end of June. And we will drive forward to deliver for the people who put us in these very powerful positions. So, this is a good day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

IAN PAISLEY, NORTHERN IRELAND FIRST MINISTER: It is a special day because we're making a new beginning. And I believe we're starting on a road which will bring us back to peace and to prosperity. And I would challenge the people of northern Ireland rise to the challenge today and be determined that come what may, we'll make this a country where all men and women will be equal under the law, and equally subject to the law.

Thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHURCH: And the prime ministers of Britain and Ireland were on hand to help bolster the new government. This day is the culmination of 10 years of painstaking negotiations led by Britain's Tony Blair, seen there.

CLANCY: All right. A lot of people having a role in all of that. And it's -- you know, history in the making is an understatement when you consider the number of years we all sat at desks like this when reporting on the daily bomb blasts, the death tolls that were ever rising.

CHURCH: That's right. A lot of people said they'd never get to this point.

CLANCY: But they have.

CHURCH: But they have.

CLANCY: And we're seeing it right here.

All right. We're going to survey some of the other stories that are making news this day.

(NEWSBREAK)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CLANCY: Hello, everyone. And welcome back to CNN International and YOUR WORLD TODAY.

CHURCH: Where we are covering the news the world wants to know and giving you some perspective that goes a little deeper into the stories of the day. CLANCY: That's right.

Well, the battle over the funding of U.S. troops in Iraq now sees the Democrats retreating from hard and fast deadlines to begin that withdrawal. But everywhere on Capitol Hill, Republicans and Democrats alike are saying, this surge may have until September to prove itself.

Meantime, in Iraq, a powerful car bomb killed at least 16 people and wounded dozens more in Kufa. The blast went off in the middle of a crowded square not far from a Shia mosque. Deadly blasts also rocked a police station in Baquba and a minibus in Baghdad.

CHURCH: Well, the relentless series of attacks across Iraq highlights the forces trying to pull that country apart. And it seems few are more at risk than those seeking unity.

CLANCY: One recent target, a popular Iraqi radio station attacked last week. It was long considered to be a meeting place, a virtual meeting place on the airwaves, where Iraqis could exchange opinions without being afraid of reprisals.

CHURCH: Nic Robertson has that report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Barely recognizable as a radio station -- a burnt-out computer, a twisted chair, all that remains of one of Iraq's most popular and fiercely independent broadcasters, Radio Dijla.

When it first took to the airwaves three years ago, its groundbreaking cross-community talk radio show offered hope.

AHMAD RIKABY, RADIO DIJLA DIRECTOR: The Iraqis have many things to say. They want to complain, they want to cry, they want to shout.

ROBERTSON: Then, came countrywide violence. Two of its journalists were killed, several kidnapped. But it kept on broadcasting.

A civil war took hold, Radio Dijla's call-in shows became rare beacons of unity amid airwaves polarized by stations with sectarian agendas until last week, when insurgents burst in. Staff grabbed guns. Even now they're afraid to show their faces.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I began shooting them because our friend are killed -- or I don't know what happened.

ROBERTSON (on camera): Do you think they're going to kill you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. That -- this is why they come, to kill us.

ROBERTSON (voice over): The station director, Rikaby, was in London. Staff called him for help. RIKABY: I heard all of the shoutings. I heard the bullets. I heard how my guys, actually seven or eight people, were fighting 80 members of al Qaeda inside the station.

ROBERTSON: The chief guard who vowed to lay his life down for the journalists was killed almost immediately. They were outmanned, outgunned. Their only hope, to call the Iraqi army.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They tell us, "Later, later."

ROBERTSON (on camera): Call back later?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Call back later. "OK," I said to him, to the man who was on the phone with me. "When later? They come to kill us. These -- we want you to help us."

ROBERTSON (voice over): Desperate, they called again. To their horror, the army told them it was too dangerous.

"They told me the area was not secure. They wouldn't sacrifice their soldiers to come help us," the station's acting director tells me.

In an hour-long gun battle the eight men on the radio staff held off the 80 al Qaeda fighters, saving themselves, as well as women and children in the newsroom. Soldiers finally showed up and drove them all to safety.

(on camera): Iraqi army spokesmen say they've been warning Radio Dijla for months that al Qaeda had been moving into their neighborhood and that it was becoming so dangerous the army couldn't protect them.

Rikaby watched the transformation.

(voice-over): He says Sunnis forced out of their homes in Shia areas had moved into the High Al-Jana (ph) area, close to Radio Dijla. Al Qaeda wanted to dominate the new, pure Sunni neighborhood and took over a mosque close to the radio station. The religious leader began threatening staff.

RIKABY: He made threats. He said, "High Al-Jana (ph) is part of the Islamic state." And he meant the Islamic state imposed by al Qaeda. And we shouldn't -- we don't accept to have such a radio station in our state.

ROBERTSON: A map of west Baghdad shows neighborhoods that many residents consider under al Qaeda control. Often, they run from radical mosques.

Rikaby has a message for them.

RIKABY: I hope they're watching us now. They should know that they have destroyed only walls and some computers and maybe a mixer, but they definitely didn't destroy our will.

ROBERTSON: Their Web site is still up, although silent. That's where they plan to relaunch their message of unity.

Nic Robertson, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHURCH: All right. We are going to take a short break now. But after that, could a bid for the Dow Jones company become tainted by concerns about insider trading?

CLANCY: We're going to have details of that ahead in our business headlines.

And then a little bit later in the show, Dr. Sanjay Gupta is going to be interviewing former U.S. president Bill Clinton about a new low-cost AIDS-fighting initiative. The live interview coming up right here on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

CLANCY: We've been covering the queen's royal trip to Washington in recent days. That visit has obviously been under very high security.

CHURCH: Of course. But there's continuing controversy over another proposed royal journey. Should Prince Harry be deployed to Iraq?

Tom Foreman has our report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It is for Buckingham Palace and the British military a big question: should his royal highness, Prince Henry of Wales -- Harry to you and me -- join his fellow soldiers on the front lines in Iraq?

Of course, it wouldn't be a question at all if Harry were a commoner. But with his high profile.

WILL GEDDES, ICP GROUP: Does he bring a greater level of risk and threat to his fellow troops? And secondly, does it create a potential high level of risk to the royal family?

FOREMAN: It's a question that has confounded the man charged with deciding on a princely battle strategy. He finally agreed that Harry should fight alongside his men. For a while, anyway.

SIR RICHARD DANNATT, HEAD OF THE BRITISH ARMY: He will deploy with his regiment in due course. I will, as I previously said, keep that decision under review.

FOREMAN: But Harry, himself, has never wavered. Now, Unit Commander Wales, he wants to be with the men under his command, just as he was in training. PRINCE HARRY, UNITED KINGDOM: If they said, "No, you can't go front line", then I wouldn't drag my sorry ass through Sandhurst, and I wouldn't -- I wouldn't be where I am now. Because the last thing I want to do is have my soldiers sent away to Iraq or wherever like that and for me to be held back home twiddling my thumbs.

FOREMAN: Despite his bravado, same security experts say the fears for Harry's safety are not unfounded.

GEDDES: Certainly, from various intelligence reports that have come through, the insurgents have circulated photographs of Prince Harry, and there are certain bounties, allegedly, that have already been issued.

FOREMAN: But the army has given Harry a calling. Before he found it, he was, it seemed, a prince without purpose. His older brother, William, is directly in line to be king someday.

So, as a spare to the heir, Harry performed his royal duties, like organizing a charity to help children in Southern Africa. But he appeared destined to make nothing of his life except headlines.

Then, everything changed. In May 2005, Harry headed for the Royal Military Academy at Sandhurst. Officer Cadet Wales, as he was known, graduated in April 2006 and was assigned to the Blues and Royals Regiment as a unit commander. Some say, failing to deploy Harry to Iraq could hurt him and his men.

GEDDES: It would certainly give some sort of message that that unit was incapable of operating within a theater as hostile as Iraq. But secondly, it would be humiliating to him.

FOREMAN: April was the deadliest month for British troops in Iraq, with 12 soldiers killed by insurgent bombs. And that is why military commanders say Harry can go, but they reserve the right to bring him back if his celebrity status turns Harry and his men into nothing but targets.

Tom Foreman, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CLANCY: We are going to take an ever so short break right here on YOUR WORLD TODAY.

CHURCH: And after that, we'll hear some exciting news from our Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey, guys, I'm in the office of President Clinton, former President clinton. Big announcement coming out of the Clinton foundation, regarding slashing drug prices to about $1 a day. Could be big news for much of Sub- Saharan Africa. I'll have an exclusive interview with the president in just a few minutes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) CLANCY: Hello, everyone. And welcome back. You're watching YOUR WORLD TODAY right here on CNN International.

CHURCH: We are sign live in more than 200 countries an territories right across the globe.

CLANCY: We want to turn to a disease kills millions of people around the world every year, and new hope about getting some life- saving treatment into the hands of those who need it.

CHURCH: That's right. In just a few minutes, we'll talk with former U.s. President Bill Clinton about his foundatino's new initiative on AIDS.

CLANCY: But first we want to take you to one of the countries hardest hit by this pandemic, Botswana, struggling to lower some frightening statistics by increasing awareness and access to AIDS drugs.

That's right. Last year, Jeff Koinange filed this report from the capital.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEFF KOINANGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is what the outpatient's ward at the Princess Marina Hospital in Botswana's capital Gaborone, looks like seven days a week. Every one of these patients is HIV-positive. Thirty-seven percent of adults in Botswana are infected with the AIDS virus, one of the highest infection rates in the world.

People like 27-year-old Dikeledi Mokwenae, a domestic worker, who tested positive more than two years ago.

DIKELEDI MOKWENAE, HIV-POSITIVE MOTHER: My life is not good. Because I'm suffering (ph).

KOINANGE: Mokwenae gets her blood pressure checked regularly, before going on to receive her monthly supply of anti-retro virals. The miracle cocktail of drugs for those HIV-positive, available for free to tens of thousands of Botswanans who qualify.

DR. MARGARET DAVIS, DIRECTOR, BOTUSA: It's estimated that 110,000 people are eligible for treatment in Botswana, and over 60,000 people are now on treatment. So, that's a fairly remarkable proportion. It's well over half.

KOINANGE: But Dr. Davis says in a country where one in three adults are HIV-positive, nearly 350,000 people, more work clearly needs to be done.

DAVIS: It's a challenge to get treatment for all those people, because the demand has perhaps doubled and tripled in some clinics within the last year.

KOINANGE: At the nearby Botswana-Baylor Children's Clinic, it's early morning, and already the disease's youngest victims have filled the waiting room. The clinic is funded by the Baylor University in Texas, in the U.S. It's headed by Dr. Gabriel Anabwani. He says his team works day and night despite the odds, to try to stem the tide of a disease that cuts across all age groups.

DR. GABRIEL ANABWANI, BOTSWANA BAYLOR CHILDREN'S CLINIC: Even in the face of this tragedy, that one can do something that can bring some hope and some happiness to the faces of so many people.

KOINANGE: Dr. Anabwani has teamed up with both local and U.S. doctors, each aware they are in a desperate fight against time.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As a pediatrician, I make my living taking care of children with HIV. But I would be thrilled if there were no more children with HIV.

KOINANGE: Experts say Botswana is a paradox by any standards. For one, its diamond-rich mining economy means it is relatively wealthy by African standards. Secondly, it has a tiny population, less than 2 million people in a country the size of France or Texas.

These advantages they say, should have enabled Botswana to tackle AIDS head-on. Instead, the country finds itself facing an uphill battle in a fight against a pandemic, because of lack of education on the issue. Some here, though, insist the war is far from over.

SHELIA TLOU, BOTSWANA MINISTER OF HEALTH: We are prepared to fight to the bitter end. We will eventually win it. And so far, the indications are, with patience and hard work, we will win it.

ANABWANI: We have to win the war. I do not think that we have any choice in this matter. This is a war that one has to win. There's no alternative.

KOINANGE: But the alternative for some, like Flore Sigoni (ph), lies in divine intervention. Sigoni (ph) tested positive three years ago. She says, only God can help Botswanans from what she calls extinction.

Jeff Koinange, CNN, Gaborone, Botswana.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CLANCY: The reality is, there are treatments there, but the cost of AIDS drugs puts it out of reach for millions of people who have the -- are HIV-positive, and it's especially true in places like Botswana in the developing world.

CHURCH: Exactly. But today, former U.S. President Bill Clinton is announcing a landmark deal to lower the price of some AIDS drugs.

CLANCY: Our Sanjay Gupta, up in New York right now with former President Clinton joining us with some of the details. Dr. Gupta, great to see you.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good afternoon to both of you. Big announcement today coming out of the Clinton HIV- AIDS Initiatives, part of the Clinton Foundation. Two big announcements: once daily HIV pill reduced to $339 a year, that's less than a dollar a day, and cheaper second line treatments than ever before.

I'm joined by the former president, thanks for joining us. You just had a press conference on this topic. A lot of people watching think AIDS is a death sentence still. How effective are these pills?

BILL CLINTON, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: Very. We know that from our experience in the United States, that if we can get people on medication when they need it, even if they are very young, and they have proper nutrition, and live a healthy lifestyle, they can have virtually a normal lifespan.

Of course, they'll have to change so as not to infect other people. But they can have a normal lifespan. And that's what's so tragic about all these people still dying in poor countries around the world.

GUPTA: A lot of this has been focused on the cost of these medications. How do you determine a good price point? I mean, the per capita income in a lot of these places is still around $700 to $800 a year. Since $350 or so, can they afford it?

CLINTON: Well, it's still a lot of money, but it's easier to take. The three-in-one pill is so much easier to take, that we wanted to get down the price as low as we could. And I think a lot of middle income countries like Brazil, Thailand, Mexico, a lot of those countries will buy this pill.

And, it will -- because we cut the price by about -- this is about a 50 percent price cut for them. And most of the pharmaceutical companies have been selling this, did sell it for less, in sub-Saharan Africa, but still, it's a big price cut there, too.

So, more people will be able to use it. But keep in mind, we still can sell the regular first line drugs at about $130 a person a year. So that's much, much less expensive.

GUPTA: You and I have talked about AIDS before, we've traveled around the world. I think somebody once said, if the cure for AIDS came in the form of a clean glass of water, we still wouldn't be able to rid the world of AIDS because it's an access issue. What do you say about that, is that the real barrier?

CLINTON: Well, I think the cost is still a barrier, but I think soon, access will become the bigger problem, because the United States has put up quite a bit of money, the global fund has a lot of money, the global fund for HDB (ph) and malaria. And now, the French had this wonderful idea of imposing a small levy on all air traffic and putting all the money into a medical fund to pay for medicine for HDB (ph) and malaria. Nineteen other countries are now contributing to that fund.

And our job is to help with the children's drugs, the second line drugs, and now this three-in-one pill. And we're going to get $100 million to do this this year, and that $100 million will go further than ever before in giving people medicine.

So, while we do this, it's very, very important to build a health care infrastructure, and my foundation does that, in 25 countries. We need people doing that everywhere.

GUPTA: When you talk about pharmaceutical companies slashing their prices, that's not exactly what they're known for. How do you convince them to do it? Are you trading good will?

CLINTON: Well, in this case, I think we've got two or three things going here. First, the generic companies, we never asked them to lose money. We never asked the generic companies to lose money. We only asked them to make money with a different strategy. Their old strategy was, low volume, high margin, take account of the fact that you might or might not get paid. The new strategy is, very high volume, certain payment, so low margin, meaning low price.

The big pharmaceuticals, the traditional pharmaceutical companies that participate with us, mostly in the testing, testing equipment, and the second line drugs, I think they do it because, first of all, I think a lot of them really don't want to see people die. Secondly, they've recovered their research and development costs by selling these drugs in the United States, Europe and other wealthy countries. And, thirdly, I think they know it does buy them some goodwill to -- and keeps them in the market. Doesn't let them get totally pushed out by the generic drugs.

So, not all the -- you know, there is a big debate even within the big pharmaceutical companies about who will participate and to what extent, and how low they'll go on the price. But I mean, these are serious life and death issues, and it clearly, when we negotiated patent protection back when I was president with the so-called trips exception, the idea was to never deny countries the right to buy the least expensive life-saving drugs.

GUPTA: Is it, besides a cost, are these generic companies becoming more efficient? Are they -- are the formulations --

CLINTON: Yes, more efficient (ph). We've had wonderful experience working with companies like Cipla, Romboxie (ph), Matrix, Aspen, in South Africa, they've asked us, and we've brought in manufacturing efficiency experts and others. And I think they've made their own improvements.

A lot of these plants I've been in in India are just as good as any anywhere in the world. And they deserve the credit for that. It's amazing what they've done. And of course, the more efficient they are, the lower they can drive the price.

But as I said, what we work on the efficiency of production, the efficiency of supply, the certainty of payment, and a bigger volume, and we just try to get people to take a lower margin per pill. And so far, it's worked, and it's saving a lot of lives. GUPTA: We are talking with former president Bill Clinton about HIV-AIDS. Two big announcements out of the foundation. When we return (ph) after break, I'm going to ask him a little bit about what prepared him to do what he's doing now, maybe even squeeze in a question about Ireland, as well.

Be back with you, YOUR WORLD TODAY, just after these breaks.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUPTA: We're back with President Bill Clinton, talking about HIV-AIDS. Two major announcements coming out of the initiative today. How long does the deal last that we're talking about today? And these are lifetime meds that we're talking about. Are they going to be there for the lifetime of these people?

CLINTON: Well, yes, they'll be there unless we can have breakthroughs with new medicine, or we lower the price further. You know, we started out with the traditional first line drugs at $500, we got it down to $130. Now, sometimes, we buy in big volumes that are just barely above $100. We started out with children drugs at $600, we got it down to $190. Now, because they have fewer elements in them, they're smaller, we got them all the way down to $60 a person a year.

So, I think the price will just keep dropping, and then new products will come along, and hopefully some day we'll have a mirobial -- microbocidal (ph) gel that will be preventive, we'll have a vaccine that will work, we'll hopefully some day have a cure. But we can stay on this track almost indefinitely.

GUPTA: You're talking about those gels and those vaccines already. I walked into your office today, big crowd out in front of your office. What about the people right here in the United States and in Harlem? I mean, should we be negotiating lower drug prices for them, as well?

CLINTON: Well, we should worry about it if the states, for example, can't pay. South Carolina ran out of money not very long ago for about 300 people. It was -- really bothered me because they weren't getting enough federal support. I think the federal government, after these drugs have been under patent for a certain amount of time might ask for a break. You know, we still pay $10,000 a person a year for this medicine, and the Canadians and the Europeans pay $3500 for exactly the same medicine.

So, after we know the companies have fully recovered their R&D costs and establish a good profit profile, then, almost no matter what they sell this medicine for now, it's going to be profitable. Just maybe slightly less so. So you know, I -- I think in general, the United States should bargain for lower prices for life saving drugs that we buy in great volume.

But, I think we expect to pay a little bit more here because these companies make their home here, and they hire people here and they do a lot of their R&D here. GUPTA: What in your life has prepared you for this, for working with AIDS, doing this sort of work that you're doing now?

CLINTON: Well, I've always been interested in health care, ever since I was a little boy. Even my mother was a nurse (INAUDIBLE), and a lot of my adult role models were doctors when I was a kid. I hung around hospitals, I was watching surgery by the time I was 12 and not getting sick at the sight of blood.

And when I was governor, of a state that was both small but had a limited per capita income, I devoted an enormous amount of time to thinking about efficiency. Keep in mind, one of the most successful things I did as president, I don't know that I or more sadly, Al Gore made any (ph) votes out of it, but one of the best things we did was the reinvented government initiative.

I mean, government was smaller when I took office than it had been since the last months of Dwight Eisenhower's presidency. The Social Security administration won an award for being the most efficient consumer oriented business in America, in serving people. We totally redid the veterans health care system. I was used to trying to organize and direct underfunded markets for what I would call public goods. That's what the Empowerment Zone Program was all about, the new markets initiative, trying to get people to invest in poor areas.

I think, very often, the lives of people who don't have enough investment, or health care or education, not only suffer from too little investment money, but total lack of organization, a lack of effective systems, so, I figure, since I didn't have the money, the Gates Foundation, what I could do, is organize these markets for public goods. And try to attract investment, because they were organized and you could get a high return for the dollar you put in.

And I've just been doing it ever since I got in public service.

GUPTA: I want to switch topics real quick because we are running out of time. Big news out of Ireland today, Mr. President. You've been to Ireland several times. Your background is Irish. Has the time for peace come in Northern Ireland?

CLINTON: Oh, it's a happy day. Today is the end -- the formal end of the longest civil conflict in European history. And you know, the process has been long, it started, I think, when I gave Jerry Adams (ph) a Visa in 1994, and then we had the ceasefire in '95, and then the Good Friday accord in 1998, which was a hard thing to do.

And then the government was up, and then it was down. And I'm just -- I couldn't be happier today. My mother's people were Scots- Irish Protestants from County Fermanagh in southwest Northern Ireland.

But, I think that the lion's share of the credit here, even though George Mitchell (ph) did a brilliant job, I was heavily involved, the American-Irish diaspora was heavily involved. But we ought to credit Tony Blair, John Bruton (ph), and the -- both the Catholic and Protestant leaders of Northern Ireland, and most important, the people themselves.

You know, when the government came apart a couple of years ago, the country just went right on. They kept working together, they kept growing together. And, any politician that had tried to undo this peace process that was ratified in 1998 in the Good Friday accord would have been quickly dispatched from office.

So, I give the lion's share of the credit here to the local leaders, Jerry Adams (ph), John Hume (ph), David Tremble (ph), Mark McGinness (ph), a lot of the other leaders of the parties, and, of course, Mr. Paisley (ph) came across at the end, too. It's great, it's interesting. He and Mark McGinness (ph) look like the odd couple, but I believe they'll find that, if they stick to the public business, they'll do just fine together.

GUPTA: OK, it was awfully quiet during that press conference, but present nonetheless. Mr. President, thank you. We covered a wide variety of topics Jim and Rosemary, from (ph) AIDS to Ireland, appreciate your views today Mr. President.

Back to you guys in Atlanta.

CLANCY: All right, Sanjay, thank you. Good news, good profile there, too, of what happened this day in Northern Ireland. But that has to be it for this hour.

CHURCH: That's right. I'm Rosemary Church.

CLANCY: I'm Jim Clancy. And this is CNN.

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